Originally posted by GiannottiUnfortunate that it went in this direction.
we had a good start, but this is disintegrating
i'm going to condense the list of suggestions to eliminate duplication, and start a new thread so we can focus on a viable list of changes
look for it to appear in the next day or two
all clan leaders and clan members are welcome to participate
please leave animosity behind
thanks
~leo
Your efforts are appreciated.
Originally posted by robbie carrobierobbie,
sorry i have nothing to say, i do not cavort with known sandbaggers! 😏
You are a LIAR a simple fact not name calling, You are in with sandbaggers, Breaking bad, anti-metallica, & arrow. Every time they throw you points it lowers their rating even lower than their real rating. Which makes all three of those CLANS SANDBAGGERS!!!
-VR
- Joined
- 05 Jan 05
- Moves
- 687691
Originally posted by robbie carrobieto be fair that challenge looks like players on both teams have been doing sandbagging, some of the anon players looking a tad lower than their normal ratings
look at this lopsided challenge,
Clan challenge 285975
Maghoober beating up on a 1500 rated player, Booblah pretending his is a 1400 rated player, Mytwoforkedbuns masquerading as a 1700 rated player, Very Crusty beating up a 1200 rated player and Maghoober55 doesn't think that sandbagging is a problem? Someone please reel the deluded fool in.
Originally posted by Wycombe AlAl,
to be fair that challenge looks like players on both teams have been doing sandbagging, some of the anon players looking a tad lower than their normal ratings
I would like you or robbie to show me games you think I've been sandbagging in!! I take that as a personal insult!
Regards,
-VR
- Joined
- 05 Jan 05
- Moves
- 687691
Originally posted by Very Rustyi've no issue with your ratings, however a few of the others do look a bit suspect on both teams, i've no issue with any clan in particular, i think we all know sandbagging is a problem and is prevelant in a lot of clans
Al,
I would like you or robbie to show me games you think I've been sandbagging in!! I take that as a personal insult!
Regards,
-VR
Originally posted by Wycombe AlAl,
i've no issue with your ratings, however a few of the others do look a bit suspect on both teams, i've no issue with any clan in particular, i think we all know sandbagging is a problem and is prevelant in a lot of clans
I do believe that everyones rating is going to go up and down. It doesn't mean they are sandbagging, but in some cases it is quite obvious as you are aware. My chess mentor I had years ago who was an expert told me it is common for someones rating to fluctuate sometimes as much as 200 points.
I have noted in some cases it may be because people have had medical issues which affected their thinking process. I always try to be dead certain sure when accusing people of sandbagging. I look for consistant up and down rating over a long period of time. Then have to find out if there have been health issues, or even personal issues.
I do think of you as being one of the good guys, trying to do the right thing and play by the unwritten rules if you will. IF a committee was set up as has been suggested by a group of respected Clan leaders I want to see you in that group. I believe that was a very good suggestion.
Kind Regards,
-VR
Originally posted by Very RustyFurther on this.
Al,
I do believe that everyones rating is going to go up and down. It doesn't mean they are sandbagging, but in some cases it is quite obvious as you are aware. My chess mentor I had years ago who was an expert told me it is common for someones rating to fluxuate sometimes as much as 200 points.
I have noted in some cases it may be because people ...[text shortened]... trying to do the right thing and play by the unwritten rules if you will.
Kind Regards,
-VR
In a tournament I am playing in, I just resigned 2 games to a player rated at 1050 before the games were 2 moves in.
Why you ask ??
Because I noted that this player has been rated as high as 2500.
I was able to catch this in time.
Because after 3 moves, the games become rated and I would have lost 64 points on my rating.
That's a 64 point rating drop in 2 games !!!!
I don't mind playing opponents rated at 2500, when their rating is at 2500 !!
Point being, a 200 point rating swing is not that much on this site.
A losing streak or hitting a falsely rated player can do that quite easily.
Note to my accusers .... if I had really wanted to sandbag my rating, I could have let these games go 3 moves and lost to a superior player.
- Joined
- 05 Jan 05
- Moves
- 687691
Originally posted by mghrn55goes to show sandbagging is a big issue and is happening all over the site, not just in clan games, i've entered banded tournaments where i've come against players who should no way be allowed to enter on their past record.
Further on this.
In a tournament I am playing in, I just resigned 2 games to a player rated at 1050 before the games were 2 moves in.
Why you ask ??
Because I noted that this player has been rated as high as 2500.
I was able to catch this in time.
Because after 3 moves, the games become rated and I would have lost 64 points on my rating.
That's a ...[text shortened]... ted to sandbag my rating, I could have let these games go 3 moves and lost to a superior player.
perhaps change is not just needed for clans, the rating system probably needs an overhaul, players going off for weeks or months for whatever their reason really screws it up when they incur lots of timeouts, maybe once you reach a certain level there is only a certain level you rating can drop to, maybe only 250 to 300 points max then timeouts wouldn't create such an issue
i've played against high rated players in tournament games where i've timed them out and jumped higher in rating from 2 games than i do over a year then giving myself a rating which is not what i can achieve or keep up with in normal play
- Joined
- 02 Jul 08
- Moves
- 42093
hi there,
Thanks for starting this thread. I wish I had the time to read through the 9 pages of replies (as of 10/31/16), but from what I did read there were a lot of insults, so, not very helpful.
Not that it's worth much, but I wanted to throw my 2 cents in the ring before I am done with my clan.
I began managing the Chess Whisperers about 2 years ago since the current clan leader then had become too busy to create new challenges. In becoming a clan leader, I found a passion for doing research to create fair matchups between my players and players in other clans. This took an hour or two each week, and I kept detailed records in a text file that has grown to 6K lines. I used to create pairings based solely on current ratings, but once I realized a player's current rating was not totally reflective of their skill, I began to further refine my criteria over the years, looking at 1 year 5 year averages mins maxes. I also extended my single player research beyond the profile page, digging into their completed games against players of various ratings, past performance against my players in other challenges. This process, although tedious, was kind of fun since it was so detail-oriented. And I felt that these methodical and time-consuming efforts were going towards a noble goal, to create matchups that were as fair as possible, and then win or lose it wouldn't matter. But over time, I've seen the obstacles to creating matchups increase. Not that any of this is new to this thread, but there are players that intentionally lose or resign clan or tournament games to drop their ratings. There are clan leaders who intentionally create unfair matchups, hoping that a lazy clan leader will accept them since no one wants to spend the time to research. A most recent obstacle comes from RHP itself, the +/- 200 point limitation on player matchups prevent me from playing a solid 1400 player against an 1100 player who I know was a solid 1400 player in the past. So this is an RHP-enforced unfair matchup, which the best way I found to reply to is just never playing against these players, but this reduces the # of matchups/challenges you can create.
So my main takeaway from managing the clan for 2 years and creating a lot of challenges (more than some in the top clan's page) is that, creating fair matchups creates a very narrow path to clan victory. It takes very little to knock you off a 50/50 win percentage. Not having any easy victories against opponents who are weaker than you by design, not having any easy victories against opposing clans whose mission is to give you points. Two things that are not related to foul play, is that my clan, like many, suffer from the occasional player dropping off the site or not knowing how to use the Vacation feature (despite messages previously sent to explain), this serves up about 20 timeout losses. I've got a record of each time this happened, it's quite devastating. In a 10 game challenge that you design to be fair that is executed well and in a perfect world, on the long run you should see a pattern of winning 5 games per 10 in the challenge. Any one of the 4 things I've listed will cause you to earn fewer points than other clans. But all of these factors have made it so that my clan has been a solid Page 9, or last page, clan. Now if this had taken no effort, I wouldn't be put out, but having invested a lot of time in trying to do well in the clan rankings, I can see how that it's not about fair play, fair play isn't rewarded but punished. Success in the current clan rankings is just a self-pat on the back for how you can work the system, not about how your players are playing good chess.
And that realization is why I'm done being a clan leader. I will still play some chess here, in 1 on 1 games there is no silly competition about clan rankings to encourage sandbagging, there will be no resignations or draws to have my opponent lower their rankings, and I won't play a player who is obviously much more senior to me even though their rating says otherwise. It will be purely about playing chess and learning how to play better chess. It's disappointing that this is not part of clan play, as I had originally thought years ago. I won't be recommending the RHP clan experience to anyone.
Good luck sorting this problem out. Or not. It doesn't matter to me, I think this clan system is too flawed to be repaired, but kudos to you all if you figure out how.
Cheers.
,Yroyathon
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou are once again proving you are an idiot
look at this lopsided challenge,
Clan challenge 285975
Maghoober beating up on a 1500 rated player, Booblah pretending his is a 1400 rated player, Mytwoforkedbuns masquerading as a 1700 rated player, Very Crusty beating up a 1200 rated player and Maghoober55 doesn't think that sandbagging is a problem? Someone please reel the deluded fool in.
The players in question are rated 1900 1800 and 1700 you dolt.
Blow it out of your lying mouth!!
Originally posted by shortcircuitFor our friends in Metallica. a sentimental little number,
You can't shut your pie hole to save your lying name.
You are beneath contempt, as are the rest of the sisters.
You can rot in hell as far as I am concerned.
Better buckle up, times are gonna get tough for you!
Originally posted by mghrn55I will hear your confessions now my son! whats that you say about tournament games, you did what?
Further on this.
In a tournament I am playing in, I just resigned 2 games to a player rated at 1050 before the games were 2 moves in.
Why you ask ??
Because I noted that this player has been rated as high as 2500.
I was able to catch this in time.
Because after 3 moves, the games become rated and I would have lost 64 points on my rating.
That's a ...[text shortened]... ted to sandbag my rating, I could have let these games go 3 moves and lost to a superior player.