07 May 16
Originally posted by FishHead111And you didn't even bother to read the linked Wikipedia page.
You keep posting Trespass TO LAND articles.
Someone's home is an entirely different thing .
Land is defined as the surface, subsoil, airspace and anything permanently attached to the land, such as houses.
Walk into a stranger's home at 2 in the morning and say it's not a crime because the door wasn't locked and see what the police have to say about it when they haul you off. It IS a criminal trespass.
In the UK, it apparently isn't criminal trespass.
It scares me that people as thick as you are allowed to vote.
I am only allowed to vote in Zambia. I am not allowed to vote in the US, or in South Africa where I actually live. So no need to worry.
But I can read Wikipedia which you apparently have trouble with.
Originally posted by kquinn909Its not about whether the house owner is OK with it, its about whether or not you are committing a criminal offence. Unless he was asked to leave, he would not be committing a criminal offence.
You ok w/ muzzies walking into your house in the middle of the night?
Harming the trespasser in any way would almost certainly be a criminal offence. The correct course of action is to ask them to leave and if they do not, you call the police. Only if you are threatened by the trespasser can you take actions in self defence.
07 May 16
In Zambian law, intent matters.
http://www.zambialii.org/zm/legislation/consolidated-act/87
306. Any person who-
(a) unlawfully enters into or upon any property in the possession of another with intent to commit an offence or to intimidate, insult or annoy any person in possession of such property;
(b) having lawfully entered into or upon such property unlawfully remains there with intent thereby to intimidate, insult or annoy any such person or with intent to commit any offence;
is guilty of the misdemeanour termed "criminal trespass" and is liable to imprisonment for three months. If the property upon which the offence is committed is any building, tent or vessel used as a human dwelling or any building used as a place of worship or as a place for the custody of property, the offender is liable to imprisonment for one year.
Actually opening a door and entering a home is breaking and entering and that is a crime:
breaking and entering
v., n. entering a residence or other enclosed property through the slightest amount of force (even pushing open a door), without authorization. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. If there is no such intent, the breaking and entering alone is probably at least illegal trespass, which is a misdemeanor crime.
And THAT is an English Common law definition.
I think we can put this to bed now.
07 May 16
Originally posted by wolfgang59What an armed homeowner can do, is forcefully demand the intruder get face down on the ground. The perp will either comply, flee, or respond with violence. If the latter, he can be shot. If he flees, best you can do is observe and report, where, how, license plate #, etc.
Years ago in the UK a burglar sued a house owner for having a dangerously untidy garden.
A bit extreme.
The point is you cannot react with disproportionate force.
You cannot threaten someone taking your stuff with a knife for instance.
If he complies, you can hogtie or handcuff him, and then call police. When police arrive, be certain your gun is put away, or holstered.
07 May 16
Originally posted by twhiteheadCriminal defense lawyers love "intent" rules. They tend to muck things up with unproveables.
In Zambian law, intent matters.
http://www.zambialii.org/zm/legislation/consolidated-act/87
306. Any person who-
(a) unlawfully enters into or upon any property in the possession of another with intent to commit an offence or to intimidate, insult or annoy any person in possession of such property;
(b) having lawfully enter ...[text shortened]... place for the custody of property, the offender is liable to imprisonment for one year.
Originally posted by FishHead111Alright who's the idiot that gave that post a thumbs down? Somebody that's butt-hurt because I proved them wrong?
Actually opening a door and entering a home is breaking and entering and that is a crime:
breaking and entering
v., n. entering a residence or other enclosed property through the slightest amount of force (even pushing open a door), without authorization. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. If there is no such intent, the breaking ...[text shortened]... anor crime.
And THAT is an English Common law definition.
I think we can put this to bed now.
- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
07 May 16
1 edit
Originally posted by FishHead111http://findlaw.co.uk/law/property/other_property_law_topics/trespassing.html
Actually opening a door and entering a home is breaking and entering and that is a crime:
breaking and entering
v., n. entering a residence or other enclosed property through the slightest amount of force (even pushing open a door), without authorization. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. If there is no such intent, the breakin ...[text shortened]... or crime.
And THAT is an English Common law definition.
I think we can put this to bed now.
"Trespassing on to somebody else’s land without a lawful excuse is an offence itself and is one of the rare forms of tort claims in which a claimant can bring a claim without having to prove any damage has occurred. However, it is not a criminal offence and so property owners must bring their claim in the civil courts."
There is no crime of 'breaking and entering' in the UK.
The 'definition' you looked up http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/breaking+and+entering
doesn't prove otherwise.
And indeed the fact that it mentions a "misdemeanor crime" is indicative that it's talking about US
law as in the UK we don't have misdemeanor crime's.
EDIT: Also, posting a random quote with no context or source does not constitute proof.
Even if it were actually correct and relevant.
07 May 16
Originally posted by FishHead111That isn't English Common Law, and English Common Law doesn't have definitions.
Actually opening a door and entering a home is breaking and entering and that is a crime:
breaking and entering
v., n. entering a residence or other enclosed property through the slightest amount of force (even pushing open a door), without authorization. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. If there is no such intent, the breakin ...[text shortened]... or crime.
And THAT is an English Common law definition.
I think we can put this to bed now.
07 May 16
Originally posted by twhiteheadTrespass is a criminal offense. If a home has locked doors, and windows, it is presumed that anyone defeating those measures is trespassing.
Its not about whether the house owner is OK with it, its about whether or not you are committing a criminal offence. Unless he was asked to leave, he would not be committing a criminal offence.
Harming the trespasser in any way would almost certainly be a criminal offence. The correct course of action is to ask them to leave and if they do not, you call the police. Only if you are threatened by the trespasser can you take actions in self defence.
A lot has to do with the exact circumstances. If I wake at 3am to the sound of a crowbar prying open my locked door, the offender has already rejected my denial of him entering, and declared criminal intent. If he entered knowing the home is occupied, I would presume his intentions to be to harm anyone inside. In American law, this is known as the "Castle Doctrine", as a man's home is his castle.
I would have no reason not to shoot this intruder, and would not owe him further warnings. Many people post signs to the effect that "burglars will be shot, and survivors prosecuted". Other means of warning off intruders are signs warning of vicious dogs.
I am aware that some jurisdictions have passed laws forbidding dogs, or active alarm systems such as booby traps. I find these wrongheaded, and basically protective of the criminal element.
I find your "ask them to leave" advise particularly foolish in any non urban environment, where police response by be a long time coming. For example, in northern Michigan between the Mac bridge and Escanaba is a stretch of road with a few small towns and almost no police, especially at night. A 911 call there might take an hour or much longer for a response. There are, in fact, many times and places where people must face emergencies on their own, even in urban areas.