2 ideas on healthcare

Originally posted by utherpendragon
Is it a better system?

Utherpendragon, it is my impression that many millions of American families face life changing financial disaster if they have a serious accident or become seriously ill. I have the impression it is like a grim cloud hanging over millions of uninsured people and millions more whose insurance is littered with caveats and get-outs. I am not talking about financial disaster in terms of loss of earnings. I am talking about debt. British people do not have anything remotely like the same grim cloud hanging over them. You have an accident or become seriously ill. You go to hospital. You get mended. You go back to work without any debt and try to recoup the money you lost from being off work. What's more, there's an extensive world class private system too. People can opt to use that. In most repsects that system of pay as you go health care is even better.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
What sort of taxation are we talking about to have a system like that?

Last time I paid National Insurance it was 9% but you should be aware I am an ex-pat now and there are others here who will knw far more than me.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
as long as your paying "something" monthly they cant do anything about it. Also,there is always bankruptcy. I agree though,prices are way to high.The op had some good points on how to fix it somewhat. What do you suggest would be a better system?

When you are under the poverty line creditors and filing for bankruptcy is no freeking picnic. The Bankruptcy laws were more liberal 2 years ago, but not anymore. As far as what we should have, I think certain things that are health risks could be taxed to help pay for some sort of Socialized (yeah I said the "s" word) medical plan. Things like cigs (as you said in another thread poorer people are more likely to smoke, but they are going to need the care later) beer, booze, and i'll go out on a limb here, fast freeking food. And since I brought up the "s" word I'll anticipate the government are slow and inaffectual and bla bla bla. If the government can manage to run the military, it can run health care. If the government, for 45cents, can get a package from the west coast to the east coast in 2 days, it can manage health care.

Originally posted by StTito
When you are under the poverty line creditors and filing for bankruptcy is no freeking picnic. The Bankruptcy laws were more liberal 2 years ago, but not anymore. As far as what we should have, I think certain things that are health risks could be taxed to help pay for some sort of Socialized (yeah I said the "s" word) medical plan. Things like cigs (as you s ...[text shortened]... get a package from the west coast to the east coast in 2 days, it can manage health care.

🙂 I hope your right,I truly do. I just dont see them managing any thing good. Any time I go to the DMV I think about this. LOL. California is a example of goverment dropping the ball. The whole banking system was originally started by the goverment w/ the bright idea everybody was entitled to house who wanted one. i know I am mixing state w/ fed govs here w/ my examples but my point is big,than bigger buracracies are very wasteful and leave much room for corruption,
I know it wont happen but The Gov needs to get the hell out of the way,cut the hell out of taxes,STOP SPENDING, and stop trying to fix everything that they started in the first place.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
The Gov needs to get the hell out of the way,cut the hell out of taxes,STOP SPENDING, and stop trying to fix everything that they started in the first place.

So that's it? For you, no compehensive health care for everyone?

Originally posted by FMF
So that's it? For you, no compehensive health care for everyone?

It sounds like a great idea if it would work.By that I mean quality,and not giving up half my income in taxes. The mind set has been differnt here than in europe for years. Its changing in some circles though.,and that is "health care" is not a "right" but a commoditie ( i know im over tired when i cant spell🙂 ) Its not supposed to be the Govs role to take care of us in that sense. Many Americans have a healthy fear of the whole Orwellian thing. Universal health care to many is one more step in that direction

Originally posted by utherpendragon
It sounds like a great idea if it would work.By that I mean quality,and not giving up half my income in taxes. The mind set has been differnt here than in europe for years. Its changing in some circles though.,and that is "health care" is not a "right" but a commoditie ( i know im over tired when i cant spell🙂 ) Its not supposed to be the Govs role t ...[text shortened]... the whole Orwellian thing. Universal health care to many is one more step in that direction

You perceive universal health care in, say, Europe, to be Orwellian? How so?

Originally posted by FMF
You perceive universal health care in, say, Europe, to be Orwellian? How so?

I did not say me but for many americans, It is one more brick in the wall towards all out socialism. I think europeans are used to that and do not fear it. It goes against the grain for many americans ,not all ofcourse but alot.thats why this is such a hot topic here.Many are looking at the gov controlling the banking system,automobiles,forcing the states to do there bidding through intimidation,education,affirmative action,etc,etc.Now trying to back door into controlling all health care. This in turn leads to fascism.Many people fear they are just getting too big and where is it going to stop? Many americans want to make there own choices succeed or fail.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
Now trying to back door into controlling all health care. This in turn leads to fascism. [...] Many americans want to make there own choices succeed or fail.

European universal health systems all have private systems running in parallel. No one is forced to choose to do something they don't want. Except pay taxes. I would have thought the 40,000,000 Americans without health insurance would be really keen on a universal health care system, along with several tens of millions of battling, hanging on for dear life lower-middle class, middle class people. I was under the impression that polls show that a majority of Americans want to see a universal health care system introduced. You seem to be saying that a majority of Americans don't want to see a universal health care system introduced (and want to make there own choices succeed or fail, as you said). I wonder which it is?

Originally posted by FMF
European universal health systems all have private systems running in parallel. No one is forced to choose to do something they don't want. Except pay taxes. I would have thought the 40,000,000 Americans without health insurance would be really keen on a universal health care system, along with several tens of millions of battling, hanging on for dear life lower ...[text shortened]... duced (and want to make there own choices succeed or fail, as you said). I wonder which it is?

If you dont mind take a couple of minutes and look at this link and watch the 3 min video.This is why i dont think we will have a choice
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/06/11obamas-health-care-trojan-horse/

Originally posted by StTito
If the government can manage to run the military, it can run health care.

This is a question that almost all conservatives need to answer. If the government is really so incredibly awful at running things and there's no hope of making government work better, why should we ever expect it to successfully protect us from our enemies?

But if the government can successfully run a military operation (which is an incredibly complex thing), surely it can successfully run domestic operations.

Originally posted by FMF
Would you describe this 'emergency room arrangement' as a better system than the 'national health systems' in, say the Netherlands or the U.K.?

It's a myth anyway; emergency rooms can and do turn people away without treatment if they come in with something less than an emergency (as defined in the applicable law).

Originally posted by FMF
In the U.K. you can be an inpatient, in a bed on a ward, getting treated for days or weeks, for "free" (i.e. the NHS is funded by tax, national insurance). You can't be denied treatment, although you might have to wait - especially with elective procedures.

Well, I'm sorry, but that sucks. I don't want to have to wait for elective procedures. If I need knee or hip surgery to correct a non-life threatening problem that makes it difficult for me to walk; I want to do it NOW! Well, maybe I'll settle for a few weeks from now, but not 6 months from now.

The US healthcare system has problems. Granted. Maybe more socialization could be part of the answer. I don't know. But I wouldn't advise any politician to try to sell us a system where we're going to wait many months for elective procedures. We're not buying it.

Originally posted by no1marauder
It's a myth anyway; emergency rooms can and do turn people away without treatment if they come in with something less than an emergency (as defined in the applicable law).

Hmmm.

You mean an "emergency" room can turn people away who don't have an "emergency"!?

Shocking!

Originally posted by sh76
Well, I'm sorry, but that sucks. I don't want to have to wait for elective procedures. If I need knee or hip surgery to correct a non-life threatening problem that makes it difficult for me to walk; I want to do it NOW! Well, maybe I'll settle for a few weeks from now, but not 6 months from now.

The US healthcare system has problems. Granted. Maybe more soci ...[text shortened]... ystem where we're going to wait many months for elective procedures. We're not buying it.

I can't buy anything! wait for an elective, oh the injustice! Oh the horror! Where is my drive through rhinoplasty? Where is my on demand stomach staple? Rich people will always get the "medical" procedures they want, I'm talking about getting BASIC health care for every citizen.