About legalizing toplessness

@moonbus said
This is a no-brainer: parents decide in the case of a minor.

I will share my experiences of having lived in Germany for 20 years. Germans are pretty casual about public nudity. At most lakes and many beaches, there is a nudist portion, which means clothes optional, nudity not mandatory. Families often go there with children from infants up to teens. Kids learn early on to ...[text shortened]... hos.

What’s different about the recent legislation in Berlin is that it applies to indoor pools.

@yo-its-me said
This sounds healthy.

I remember being surprised as a young teenager to see nudity on an advertising screen on a building in Germany the first time I visited.
I was with my school, it was an exchange.

It started a discussion with the class on this issue. The boys weren't mature enough to participate properly in the debate.

That was before the prevalence of mobile cameras on phones. Has that not changed things in Germany, like in Holland?

@vivify said
The "top-free" movement aims to make it legal for women to be topless in any area when men can be topless: the beach, a park, jogging in the street on a hot summer day, public pools, playing outdoor sports, etc.

Most people are okay with this, except for more conservative people. But here's a question for those okay with female toplessness: Should that include minors?
...[text shortened]... e it's been normalized.

So if women being topless becomes legalized, should that include minors?

@moonbus said
Certainly there is an unwritten code about pulling out a mobile phone in a place where people are running around naked or women are topless. If anyone were to pull out a mobile phone at a nudist beach and start filming with it, I’m pretty sure someone would confront the person about it. So long as you keep the phone with camera pointed down, flat on your lap for example or l ...[text shortened]... on decency prevails. Filming in a public restroom, for example, would elicit scorn and a hasty exit.

@divegeester said
Surely women are able to decide for themselves?

@yo-its-me said
Vivify is asking if someone should make a decision about children.
Not all females.

@divegeester said
Do the parents need the law to decide for them what is best for their own children when it comes to toplessness?

@vivify said
I made it clear I agree with adult women being allowed to be topless, more than once.

Based on your post, it seems you don't agree with girls being topless in places where it's allowed for boys, correct?

@yo-its-me said
You haven't noticed people are less inclined to be naked in public since there is a chance of being photographed?

@divegeester said
Surely women are able to decide for themselves?

This whole "let the parents" decide thing is naïve, isn't it?

Let's say you're a parent who tells their 14 yr old daughter *not* to go topless. That won't stop them from going topless in a place where it's legal. Children will do what they think is cool or rebellious, like smoke cigarettes or vape.

If it becomes legal for women to be topless anywhere men can be topless, is it realistic that just telling your daughter "no" will work? Unless you plan to never allow your daughter freedom to go anywhere with just her friends, like to a beach, pool party, park, etc., that's not realistic. Or will you call your daughter every few minutes to video chat and make sure she's fully dressed?

If it's legal for 14 yr old kids to smoke, they will smoke, regardless of their parents wishes. Same if it's legal for them to drink or if it's legal for 14 yr girls to go topless anywhere it's legal for boys. So the issue has to come down to whether it should be legal or not.

@vivify
Just telling them ‘no’ when they hit 14 is futile. It’s how you raise your kids in general that matters.

It depends very much on how you raise your children, whether they make correct decisions and do the appropriate thing. If you raise your kids to always do what authority tells them to do and not to think for themselves, if you prohibit them from making their own mistakes and shield them from the consequences of their actions, then you program two highly probable and problematic outcomes: either they totally rebel and do the exact opposite of what you want, or what they think you want; or they go down the rabbit hole and join some authoritarian sect.

Whereas, if you give them the independence to make mistakes and learn from them by bearing the consequences of their actions, they have a good chance of growing up to be upstanding citizens, useful to themselves and their community.

@mott-the-hoople said
should people be required to wear clothes period?

@mott-the-hoople said
must have been too hard of a question