Another Controversial Comment

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
The problem is that this comment and its ilk is often used to imply that the woman somehow deserved to be raped or that the perpetrator somehow shouldn't be as much to blame because of it.

In the case of leaving something in your car unlocked, do you think the person shouldn't go to jail for stealing from it? It is not as uncommon as you think for pe ...[text shortened]... with her legs spread. It is still rape and just as punishable if someone chooses to rape her.

I don't believe anyone is excusing the crime. People do have some responsibility for the risks they intentionally expose themselves to.

I can bring you to some blocks in Detroit, not downtown as Spruce suggested, where if I let you out to walk, it is very likely that you don't get to the end without being assaulted and robbed.

These are places locals avoid. Pizza isn't delivered there. It is still a crime to rob people there including the Pizza guy, but it is plain stupid to be walking or delivering there.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
[b]Suppose a bank invests without proper due diligence and loses everything to a Bernie Madoff type. Would you say the bank has been prudent?

How do you identify a "Bernie Madoff" type?

Suppose "a woman lies on her back naked at midnight in a bad neighborhood with her legs spread." Would you say the woman has been prudent?

Of course n isrepresentation of what I was saying.


Do you have any other imperfect analogies?[/b]

How do you identify a "Bernie Madoff" type?

The problem is they are quite hard to identify beforehand.

The dress of the woman doesn't mitigate the responsibility of the rapist.

No one suggested it did. But it is very normal in some areas to suggest that people take precautions. Take the metro where the message "Beware of pickpockets" is sometimes broadcast. That does NOT mean that the government tacitly approves of pickpockets, and it is people's own darn fault if they lose their wallets.

As for my analogies, it's worth pointing out that even an imperfect one can be useful in illustrating when someone is being attacked with a double standard.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
[b]Suppose a bank invests without proper due diligence and loses everything to a Bernie Madoff type. Would you say the bank has been prudent?

How do you identify a "Bernie Madoff" type?

Suppose "a woman lies on her back naked at midnight in a bad neighborhood with her legs spread." Would you say the woman has been prudent?

Of course n ...[text shortened]... isrepresentation of what I was saying.


Do you have any other imperfect analogies?[/b]

Go back to the woman wearing a frumpy outfit, say long pants and a loose fitting sweatshirt. That kind of garb in the US might be worn by a woman concealing a handgun inside her waistband. You think maybe bad guys might look at that and think Hmm. Maybe not this one.

Then, the woman who has made the decision to defend herself would probably be more in tune with risk avoidance.

Again, nobody is excusing criminal acts based on the foolishness of the victim, no matter who the victim is. The truth is that most victims act in some way foolishly, and that never excuses the predator.

I couldn't find it quickly, but Nashville, PD had an online survey where they asked about two dozen question, and rated a person's safety from murder. If you can find it, take it. It quickly illustrates how much common every day things which we don't think about diminish our safety.

The criminal is always at fault, but we don't have to make it easy for them.

Originally posted by DeepThought
In the UK that will get you shot by the police.

I thought the Bobbys just carried night sticks over there. I can hear one saying, I do say, go ahead you punk and make my bloody day!

Originally posted by normbenign
Sorry but if it has to be a revolver, I suggest a blued model, and a .357 is pretty bulky on an ordinary sized female. Regular female garb also presents some issues for concealed carry as well.

The wardrobe choices for a woman who decides to carry are more limited than just avoiding heels and short skirts. Concealed handguns are usually carried in th ...[text shortened]... xt cartridge.

Obviously, the choice of location dictates a lot about what a girl can wear.

They do make some compact 45 acp autos. The problem is the handgrip has to be large enough for the round and most women have small hands. Charter Arms makes compact revolvers, or used to anyway. If they have to use it, it might as well stop em with one shot.

Originally posted by spruce112358
[b]How do you identify a "Bernie Madoff" type?

The problem is they are quite hard to identify beforehand.

The dress of the woman doesn't mitigate the responsibility of the rapist.

No one suggested it did. But it is very normal in some areas to suggest that people take precautions. Take the metro where the message "Beware of pickpock ...[text shortened]... one can be useful in illustrating when someone is being attacked with a double standard.[/b]

No one suggested it did

Not you maybe, but this kind of thing and others have been used to do just that. This history that you don't seem to know of is why your analogies fail and why people do have the kind of reaction to this specific warning.

Originally posted by normbenign
People do have some responsibility for the risks they intentionally expose themselves to.

So you do think a woman bears some responsibility if they get raped after going into a bad neighborhood in revealing clothing? Because that is exactly what you are suggesting with this statement.... or do you want to retract that?

Originally posted by normbenign
It is foolish for young women to go out dressed like hookers, and expect men, especially men who have been drinking to treat them like nuns.

It's not foolish to expect men, whether drinking or not, to treat all women with respect no matter how they are dressed.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
It's not foolish to expect men, whether drinking or not, to treat all women with respect no matter how they are dressed.

Apparently, unless you happen to live in Japan, it is foolish.

It is totally irresponsible not to warn kids of possible dangers. And in the US, as someone with daughters, I will definitely warn them (when they are old enough) not to take certain risks like walking down a dark alley alone, etc.

As for giving drunk guys or passing strangers the 'come hither' especially when you yourself are three sheets to the wind -- well, yeah, that's a risk. You might end up in a situation you will regret later. As a parent, you have to be willing to point that out even if you "wish the world were a different place" because the world is what it is.

Originally posted by spruce112358
Apparently, unless you happen to live in Japan, it is foolish.
.

It's not foolish anywhere. People behave and respond based on the expectations. If we don't expect people to behave towards people with respect then they won't.

Simply shrugging our shoulders and thinking "well, drunk men will rape women... that's just what they do! We better teach our girls to watch out because you can't expect a man to not rape you" is just accepting the status quo and frankly, putting the onus all on the victim or potential victim.

I'm not saying you send your kids out into a dark neighborhood or don't warn them of risk. I have NEVER suggested that.

I am saying that the primary focus on preventing rape is to focus not on the victim but the perpetrator.

Originally posted by joe beyser
They do make some compact 45 acp autos. The problem is the handgrip has to be large enough for the round and most women have small hands. Charter Arms makes compact revolvers, or used to anyway. If they have to use it, it might as well stop em with one shot.

Paraordnance makes a great DAO .45 pistol, 6 shot capacity. Single stack so thin grip, but it is a light .45 so has a large recoil.