AOC and The Squad are Faux Progressives

@joe-shmo said
The 1.4 trillion for the jet was a one time deal. We spend nearly the summation of all that pork you mention including the jet ( less Social Security -Medicare ) annually on social welfare programs already. Taking over the Health Insurance business would be an additional multi trillion dollar expense to the contributing public annually.

Are you actually insane? you're drawing equivalence between a death machine you don't need and a plethora of social programs that help millions?

@joe-shmo said
Wow...some leftist baffoon thumbed down a fact...big surprise.

😵

When the F15 was developed, it was not inordinately expensive. Nowhere NEAR 1.4 trillion.

And perhaps you meant buffoon. Or maybe baboon.

@zahlanzi said
Are you actually insane? you're drawing equivalence between a death machine you don't need and a plethora of social programs that help millions?

And you, Turkey, are drawing equivalence between excellent healthcare which we have today, and the unsatisfactory healthcare that will evolve with the crowding of that system. I question the ability of liberals to see reason in these discussions. Someone above, for instance, refers to Trump biz decisions utilizing bankruptcy, while ignoring his economic accomplishments.
Let’s see how Biden does in comparison?

@suzianne said
When the F15 was developed, it was not inordinately expensive. Nowhere NEAR 1.4 trillion.

And perhaps you meant buffoon. Or maybe baboon.

You got me...I misspelled Suzianne!

@zahlanzi said
Are you actually insane? you're drawing equivalence between a death machine you don't need and a plethora of social programs that help millions?

"you're drawing equivalence between a death machine you don't need" - zahlanzi

Maybe in your world where we all dance in a meadow while tripping on acid fighter jets are not essential...but this isn't your world is it? The grownups are talking about the real world.

@zahlanzi said
"What is your justification that universal healthcare will be cheaper to the average economic contributor than the current system?"
Skips an entire level of intermediaries. Removes administrative costs related with processing insurance claims.

Not to mention, you know, the tiny issue that maybe healthcare might be a right and not a luxury product leeches could make prof ...[text shortened]... ll just stick to proving that single payer healthcare is actually cheaper, even with increased taxes

"Skips an entire level of intermediaries"

Be more specific please...Which ones does it skip?

"Removes administrative costs related with processing insurance claims." - zahlanzi

The government isn't reinventing healthcare...they are going to take it over. It will function in the same way. Claims still need processing...doctors, nurses, and janitors still need paid. You think that because the government takes over these administrative duties they simply disappear...well that might be the case when they destroy it.

The government grows to fill the new claim filing duties and it does so more inefficiently than the private sector...that's the reality.

@joe-shmo said
They didn't spend 140% of the annual US defense budget on the development of the F15 year after year. That 1.4 trillion was the cumulative cost to develop/improve it over the course of 5 decades or so...

https://www.cnbc.com/2014/07/31/how-dods-15-trillion-f-35-broke-the-air-force.html

You dismissed the cost as a "one time deal". Now it's cumulative costs over decades. That's sort of how these things snowball out of control. Yes, we agree that the military wastes enormous amounts of money on things it admittedly doesn't need to effectively protect America.

And... the same people who are expanding those exact same corporate welfare programs because.. jobs... also think Obamacare - subsidizing health care benefits for those who can't afford it - was a bridge too far. Every person who receives life-saving health care through Medicare or Obamacare who couldn't previously afford it is one more life saved more than the F-35 ever will.

That is the role of the federal government right? To protect us? The Pentagon apparently forgot.

@averagejoe1 said
And you, Turkey, are drawing equivalence between excellent healthcare which we have today, and the unsatisfactory healthcare that will evolve with the crowding of that system. I question the ability of liberals to see reason in these discussions. Someone above, for instance, refers to Trump biz decisions utilizing bankruptcy, while ignoring his economic accomplishments.
Let’s see how Biden does in comparison?

"excellent healthcare which we have today"
ha! You're an idiot.

"and the unsatisfactory healthcare that will evolve with the crowding of that system"
yeh, unsatisfactory. That's why Canadians have been trying to get rid of their universal healthcare system for decades. The French. The UK. Norway. Germany. Spain. Every country is trying to replace their system with one similar to the american one. Paying more for less is their dream.

@joe-shmo said
"Skips an entire level of intermediaries"

Be more specific please...Which ones does it skip?

"Removes administrative costs related with processing insurance claims." - zahlanzi

The government isn't reinventing healthcare...they are going to take it over. It will function in the same way. Claims still need processing...doctors, nurses, and janitors still need paid. ...[text shortened]... claim filing duties and it does so more inefficiently than the private sector...that's the reality.

"The government isn't reinventing healthcare...they are going to take it over. It will function in the same way."
No it bloody won't.

"Claims still need processing...doctors, nurses, and janitors still need paid."
What claims. You go to a doctor. You get treated. The doctor gets paid. No leeches in the middle trying to find loopholes deeming you not worthy of that ambulance or the chemo treatment you need to not die.

" You think that because the government takes over these administrative duties they simply disappear"
Every freakin study shows that eliminating insurance companies would save administrative costs. Even studies funded by Koch brothers found that single payer would save money.


"well that might be the case when they destroy it."
What proof do you have for this assertion? That time when Canada destroyed their health care ? Or when France did theirs? Or when Germany did theirs?

"The government grows to fill the new claim filing duties and it does so more inefficiently than the private sector...that's the reality."
Proof? What do you base this on. Common, say Veteran Affairs. Or Venezuela.

@wildgrass said
You dismissed the cost as a "one time deal". Now it's cumulative costs over decades. That's sort of how these things snowball out of control. Yes, we agree that the military wastes enormous amounts of money on things it admittedly doesn't need to effectively protect America.

And... the same people who are expanding those exact same corporate welfare programs because.. jo ...[text shortened]...

That is the role of the federal government right? To protect us? The Pentagon apparently forgot.

That 1.5 Trillion is a one time cost over 55 years. Thats 25 billion a year for the last half century... Healthcare will be multiple Trillion expenditure ANNUALLY.

@joe-shmo said
That 1.5 Trillion is a one time cost over 55 years. Thats 25 billion a year for the last half century... Healthcare will be multiple Trillion expenditure ANNUALLY.

"That 1.5 Trillion is a one time cost over 55 years. Thats 25 billion a year for the last half century... "
And what do you have to show for it?

"Healthcare will be multiple Trillion expenditure ANNUALLY"
People keep getting sick ANNUALLY. Surprising news for you?

@zahlanzi said
"The government isn't reinventing healthcare...they are going to take it over. It will function in the same way."
No it bloody won't.

"Claims still need processing...doctors, nurses, and janitors still need paid."
What claims. You go to a doctor. You get treated. The doctor gets paid. No leeches in the middle trying to find loopholes deeming you not worthy of that amb ...[text shortened]... ...that's the reality."
Proof? What do you base this on. Common, say Veteran Affairs. Or Venezuela.

The hospitals still have to procure money and justify the services rendered! There will still be people handling insurance claims- they will just be government people! And the claims are going to substantially increase because you are increasing the demand ( insuring more people ).

@zahlanzi said
"That 1.5 Trillion is a one time cost over 55 years. Thats 25 billion a year for the last half century... "
And what do you have to show for it?

"Healthcare will be multiple Trillion expenditure ANNUALLY"
People keep getting sick ANNUALLY. Surprising news for you?

"And what do you have to show for it?"

They really can't tell us the specifics, that is the shtick about having a country that must maintain military secrets for its safety...

"Healthcare will be multiple Trillion expenditure ANNUALLY"
People keep getting sick ANNUALLY. Surprising news for you?

people using a 1.5 trillion expense over 55 years for a "useless" fighter jet vs a multi trillion healthcare expense year after year as some kind of rationalization is what the problem is. They were being dishonest or were misinformed. either way that issue should be remedied. lets move on from the fighter jet analogy...

@joe-shmo said
"you're drawing equivalence between a death machine you don't need" - zahlanzi

Maybe in your world where we all dance in a meadow while tripping on acid fighter jets are not essential...but this isn't your world is it? The grownups are talking about the real world.

"Maybe in your world where we all dance in a meadow while tripping on acid fighter jets are not essential...but this isn't your world is it? The grownups are talking about the real world."
Dear grownup. Your country's military budget is bigger than the budgets of like the next 10 countries combined, 8 of which being your allies, while at peace, while americans die by the thousands because they can't afford healthcare.

I am confident in my initial assessment. But by all means, please let me know how safe the cancer patient who can't afford chemo feels with that new fighter jet gathering cobwebs in some hangar.

@joe-shmo said
"Skips an entire level of intermediaries"

Be more specific please...Which ones does it skip?

"Removes administrative costs related with processing insurance claims." - zahlanzi

The government isn't reinventing healthcare...they are going to take it over. It will function in the same way. Claims still need processing...doctors, nurses, and janitors still need paid. ...[text shortened]... claim filing duties and it does so more inefficiently than the private sector...that's the reality.

“ The government isn't reinventing healthcare...they are going to take it over. It will function in the same way. Claims still processing....”
Yeah that’s just not true though is it, what claims? claiming for what? Obviously doctors etc will still need paid.
It’s clear you have no idea how a National Health Service functions or operates.