Biden Authoritarianism has arrived.

@averagejoe1 said
So you, a smart guy, are OK with govt power, real power, over free citizens ? Do you think it will stop after this, or will future presidents, with these precedents, really crank it up when the next problem comes along. People with natural immunity , or who have had covid, or who are vaccinated, cannot catch it. That number grows every day. So you want to give Presid ...[text shortened]... and then we can turn our attention to Biden, who will be leaving.
I can’t remember the 5th one.

AJ: People with natural immunity , or who have had covid, or who are vaccinated, cannot catch it.

You have incorrect information; while the risk of catching COVID is reduced for the vaccinated, it still exists. So people who refuse to be vaccinated but continue to work with others are putting at risk those who are vaccinated just as much as the Florida woman expressing her "liberty" by coughing in someone's face.

The power to regulate interstate commerce is expressly granted to Congress, so no Tenth Amendment or "separation of powers" argument is relevant. As I keep telling you, Congress created OSHA specifically to protect the safety of workers engaged in or affected by interstate commerce and included in that legislation a provision for emergency measures.

And of course there is a public health emergency; an estimated 700,000 Americans have died of COVID in the last year and a half, including 40,000 reported COVID deaths in the last 31 days.

@no1marauder said
Does every regulation by OSHA, an agency specifically created by law to protect the safety of workers engaged in or affected by interstate commerce, have to be passed by Congress?

Of course not.

OSHA is for workplace safety. The gene vaccines have nothing to do with safety. They aren't even vaccines unless you think corruptly changing the definition is legitimate. They do not stop the spread of the virus. They don't even reduce the spread as you falsely claimed. If that was true the most vaccinated countries would have the lowest cases and the opposite is true.

Vaccinated people are spreading it more, not less.

@metal-brain said
OSHA is for workplace safety. The gene vaccines have nothing to do with safety. They aren't even vaccines unless you think corruptly changing the definition is legitimate. They do not stop the spread of the virus. They don't even reduce the spread as you falsely claimed. If that was true the most vaccinated countries would have the lowest cases and the opposite is true.

Vaccinated people are spreading it more, not less.

The US government is under no obligation to accept your nutjob conspiracy theories.

That the vaccines are safe and effective and reduce the spread of COVID is not a matter of debate anymore between rational people. The safety of workers will be enhanced by the measures proposed by the President assuming they are incorporated into OSHA regulations. COVID is far more dangerous than ladders to workers engaged in interstate commerce or affected by it; if the latter can be regulated for worker safety surely the former can.

@no1marauder said
The US government is under no obligation to accept your nutjob conspiracy theories.

That the vaccines are safe and effective and reduce the spread of COVID is not a matter of debate anymore between rational people. The safety of workers will be enhanced by the measures proposed by the President assuming they are incorporated into OSHA regulations. COVID is far more dan ...[text shortened]... commerce or affected by it; if the latter can be regulated for worker safety surely the former can.

You are insane.

The most vaccinated countries have the highest infection rates. That is a fact, not a theory. That proves the gene vaccines do not reduce the spread. It is you that is clinging to a nutjob conspiracy theory because you have no evidence of your claim.

Increasing vaccination resulted in MORE infections. Your crazy solution is to do the same thing and expect a different result. Remember Einstein's definition of insanity?

You are insane.

@metal-brain said
You are insane.

The most vaccinated countries have the highest infection rates. That is a fact, not a theory. That proves the gene vaccines do not reduce the spread. It is you that is clinging to a nutjob conspiracy theory because you have no evidence of your claim.

Increasing vaccination resulted in MORE infections. Your crazy solution is to do the same thing and expect a different result. Remember Einstein's definition of insanity?

You are insane.

MB: Increasing vaccination resulted in MORE infections.

What a ridiculous assertion; what nutjob site told you that?

Cases in the US peaked in January 2021 before vaccinations were common. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us (graph for "daily new cases" ) reaching a 7 day average high of 253,000 on January 10th. By June after the vaccinations became commonplace, the average of new cases per day had fallen to below 13,000.

@no1marauder said
MB: Increasing vaccination resulted in MORE infections.

What a ridiculous assertion; what nutjob site told you that?

Cases in the US peaked in January 2021 before vaccinations were common. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us (graph for "daily new cases" ) reaching a 7 day average high of 253,000 on January 10th. By June after the vaccinations became commonplace, the average of new cases per day had fallen to below 13,000.

Iceland and Israel are the most vaccinated countries to the best of my knowledge. What infection rates do they have relative to other countries that are less vaccinated?

They have more infections relative to lesser vaccinated countries.

Cases in the US peaked in January 2021 because most people already got infected at that time and there are less people to get it now. You attributed a false causation to the peak and subsequent fall without evidence.

Remember that 80% of the blood supply had antibodies. Part of the 20% that didn't may have T cells that give them immunity instead of the antibodies, so even that 80% number is probably under counted as far as immunity goes.

The peak and drop was also artificially created to some extent. The cycle threshold of the PCR test was changed to give more false negatives after being rigged to give false positives. That change took place on the day Biden took office.

The CDC also stopped counting all breakthrough infections while counting all infections of the unvaccinated. We have been over this data rigging before but I know how you like to conveniently forget these not so trivial facts.

You keep having faith in the numbers when you know they are rigged. We have been over all of this before. STOP FORGETTING THE DATA RIGGING!

@no1marauder said
AJ: People with natural immunity , or who have had covid, or who are vaccinated, cannot catch it.

You have incorrect information; while the risk of catching COVID is reduced for the vaccinated, it still exists. So people who refuse to be vaccinated but continue to work with others are putting at risk those who are vaccinated just as much as the Florida woman expressing ...[text shortened]... ed of COVID in the last year and a half, including 40,000 reported COVID deaths in the last 31 days.

I will give you that, that risk is reduced. True, no one is totally immune in any situation. But their risk is way down, so, again, let us not give up our Freedom since 'maybe' someone can still catch it. Ridiculous.
The cougher had no such liberty, so she was incorrect. Hope she is still in jail. The coughing was same as slugging the person.
As to 10th Amendment, I would truly like your response to this article that I found. Where is it wrong?

Tenth Amendment to the Constitution. UnderJacobson v. Massachusetts(1905) and Zucht v. King (1922), the authority to compel vaccination is a police power reserved to the states. There is no comparable power delegated by the Constitution to the federal government, and none that permits the Executive Branch to compel employers to coerce employees into vaccination or weekly testing as a condition of employment.

Moreover, if the states are deemed subject to the mandate, the Anti-Commandeering Doctrine under New York v. United States(1992) and Printz v. United States( 1997) may prohibit the federal government from coercing the states to compel their employees to be vaccinated or tested weekly.

Because the President has once again assumed dictatorial powers, there is no statutory basis for federal pre-emption of state laws banning mandatory vaccination (such as those in 14 states). That failure to get Congressional approval for the sweeping mandate will likely come back to bite him because he has usurped an inherently legislative act and unconstitutionally imposed his will upon the American people.

@no1marauder said
The US government is under no obligation to accept your nutjob conspiracy theories.

That the vaccines are safe and effective and reduce the spread of COVID is not a matter of debate anymore between rational people. The safety of workers will be enhanced by the measures proposed by the President assuming they are incorporated into OSHA regulations. COVID is far more dan ...[text shortened]... commerce or affected by it; if the latter can be regulated for worker safety surely the former can.

The 'Measures proposed by the (liberal) President"....Brrrrrrrrrrrr. Golly, the answer!! He will save us all. I am glad to see that, after serious thought, you have decided to follow the Pied Piper.
Here is a guy who wants to spend all our money without even accounting for it, or how to pay for it And they are not telling their subjects (you) that it is NOT $3.5T, it is closer to $5T.
And there you go touting that word 'regulate' again. Hell, when Trump gets back in, he will dump your regulation. That's how he got the economy roaring during his term. Amazing to think of our world if Covid had not stopped us all in our tracks.
Oh,, Marauder, what are we going do with you and your links!?!?

@averagejoe1 said
I will give you that, that risk is reduced. True, no one is totally immune in any situation. But their risk is way down, so, again, let us not give up our Freedom since 'maybe' someone can still catch it. Ridiculous.
The cougher had no such liberty, so she was incorrect. Hope she is still in jail. The coughing was same as slugging the person.
As to 10th Amen ...[text shortened]... rped an inherently legislative act and unconstitutionally imposed his will upon the American people.

So far, "maybe" about 140,000 Americans a day are catching COVID. True a substantial majority are unvaccinated, but still the threat of catching the disease even for the vaccinated remains real plus about 25% of new cases are children most of whom can't be vaccinated yet. So the analogy holds; those who choose to remain unvaccinated and also choose to continue to work with others are little different from the face cougher.

If you want me to respond to an article, provide a link to it. Copy pasting from an article without doing so is plagiarism.
I already dealt with 10th Amendment claims (it's not applicable because the Commerce Clause is an express delegation of power) and anti-commandering doctrine has to do with the Feds using State officials to enforce Federal law so it is also not relevant.

As to "dictatorial", the President is using a long established Federal agency to do what Congress tasked it to do i.e. pass regulations to enhance the safety of workers engaged in or affected by interstate commerce. If OSHA can make regulations regarding ladders why can't it make regulations regarding COVID? The disease is surely a greater threat to the safety of workers than a ladder.

Finally, Biden received more votes than anyone who ever ran for President and the mandate policies are supported by a solid majority of American adults.https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/572105-60-percent-support-biden-vaccine-mandates-

@no1marauder said
So far, "maybe" about 140,000 Americans a day are catching COVID. True a substantial majority are unvaccinated, but still the threat of catching the disease even for the vaccinated remains real plus about 25% of new cases are children most of whom can't be vaccinated yet. So the analogy holds; those who choose to remain unvaccinated and also choose to continue to work wit ...[text shortened]... adults.https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/572105-60-percent-support-biden-vaccine-mandates-

You forever avoid the issue.
It is about Biden getting angry, telling us that we had better listen up, saying that he is losing his patience. Who the hell does he think he is, telling us what to do? Chip chip chip at our freedom, which people have died for, chip chip chip at liberty (Freedom from govt control). Let's say it is cool with you to let Biden run along with his telling us what to do. You are a liberal person, bordering on you-know-what, and I can see why you are in bed with all that. AvJoe is a conservative. I will not lose our Freedoms on the chance that people will get covid. Some will get it, chances are, with vax, they won't. You and I know many people who have covid with no symptoms. Obese people and smokers may die. That is their problem. Not going to give up Freedom for those people.
Ha, you probably would have voted to NOT go to Normandy because some of our men might die. Think about it..You are indeed in favor of casting Freedom to the wind.
Frankly, being a dependent, I can see you would be unaffected by loss of Freedom. Give up your Freedom. We disagee. Whew.

Edit: Gotta ask, if your demintiaed uncle Harvey told you he was 'losing his patience', would it really get you boiling ? No. You would have no reaction at all.

Edit 2: A LOT of smart people, some in the medical community, will not take it. Boy, Biden will lose his patience. Really?

@averagejoe1 said
You forever avoid the issue.
It is about Biden getting angry, telling us that we had better listen up, saying that he is losing his patience. Who the hell does he think he is, telling us what to do? Chip chip chip at our freedom, which people have died for, chip chip chip at liberty (Freedom from govt control). Let's say it is cool with you to let Biden run along ...[text shortened]... ople, some in the medical community, will not take it. Boy, Biden will lose his patience. Really?

You write like a child; the issue to me isn't whether Biden was "angry" or not (who cares?) but whether his policy decision protects American workers. Since it clearly does in the middle of a deadly pandemic that has already taken at least 700,000 lives in the US alone, that pretty much settles it for me. IF people had a "right" to spread deadly diseases to others then you might have an argument, but since they don't they are no more "free" to do so then the woman in Florida is to cough in someone else's face.

@no1marauder said
You write like a child; the issue to me isn't whether Biden was "angry" or not (who cares?) but whether his policy decision protects American workers. Since it clearly does in the middle of a deadly pandemic that has already taken at least 700,000 lives in the US alone, that pretty much settles it for me. IF people had a "right" to spread deadly diseases to others then yo ...[text shortened]... don't they are no more "free" to do so then the woman in Florida is to cough in someone else's face.

Well, better than imitating a college professor.

Anger must depict something diff to you than it does to me. Marauder.....he WORKS FOR US. Talking down like that, hell, think it should be part of his impeachment proceedings. How dare he. And knowing Rice and Obama feed him every word incenses me more. Yesterday he was in a small forum and tried to answer an answer away from his assigned notes, ...the CUT OFF the cameras, So, y'all, you guys, you never watch Fox News? You are missing quite a bit of entertainment.
I dont deny, his policy decision is intended to protect workers, but you are shortsighted. It does NOT protect Freedom. We've discussed it, you are for the former, me for the latter.
As to your last sentence, if a non-vaccinated person catches it, I don't care. Too bad if they are obese, smoker, or real old (where his loved ones should have jabbed him). And Dont forget the evidence that some folks find out they have it by accident, when they go in for a broken nose. No symptoms most, most, of the time.
' Or, we can go your route, send Biden's thugs house to house and force vaccines. Force them. I didn't know libs like force, that is new to me. Let us ponder what the next force will be, other than taking our money. It is looking like a total of about 50% all told. Would you make us use certain light bulbs>? Oh, you've already tried that. There are a lot of examples, of power hungry people, but you get my drift. "Live and let live". Who is likely to say that, a lib.... or a conservative ?

@averagejoe1 said
I will give you that, that risk is reduced. True, no one is totally immune in any situation. But their risk is way down, so, again, let us not give up our Freedom since 'maybe' someone can still catch it. Ridiculous.
The cougher had no such liberty, so she was incorrect. Hope she is still in jail. The coughing was same as slugging the person.
As to 10th Amen ...[text shortened]... rped an inherently legislative act and unconstitutionally imposed his will upon the American people.

Risk is not reduced. no1 is full of crap!

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_morningbrief/natural-immunity-longer-lasting-than-protection-from-covid-19-vaccines-dr-robert-malone_3983305.[WORD TOO LONG]

@metal-brain said
Risk is not reduced. no1 is full of crap!

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_morningbrief/natural-immunity-longer-lasting-than-protection-from-covid-19-vaccines-dr-robert-malone_3983305.[WORD TOO LONG]

All this fluff stuff is truly tiring. I am sick of links that are diff than other links, blah blah. And we are not scientists. We are sheep? Is that the dem plan? Yes.
Guess i’ll Ask everyone in s thread tomorrow, after listing everything of fact which is Biden from hell......
That time worn question.....
If Trump had done ANY OF the listed things, what would the libs here be saying about Trump?.

@averagejoe1 said
All this fluff stuff is truly tiring. I am sick of links that are diff than other links, blah blah. And we are not scientists. We are sheep? Is that the dem plan? Yes.
Guess i’ll Ask everyone in s thread tomorrow, after listing everything of fact which is Biden from hell......
That time worn question.....
If Trump had done ANY OF the listed things, what would the libs here be saying about Trump?.

I think you will find this interesting.
Here is an excerpt from the link below:

"The press reported that vaccine mandates are now legal for military, healthcare workers, college students and employees in many industries. New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio has now required the vaccine for all teachers and school staff. The Pentagon is proceeding with its mandate for all military service members.

But there are several bizarre aspects to the FDA approval that will prove confusing to those not familiar with the pervasiveness of the FDA’s regulatory capture, or the depths of the agency’s cynicism.

First, the FDA acknowledges that while Pfizer has “insufficient stocks” of the newly licensed Comirnaty vaccine available, there is “a significant amount” of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID vaccine — produced under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) — still available for use.

The FDA decrees that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine under the EUA should remain unlicensed but can be used “interchangeably” (page 2, footnote 8) with the newly licensed Comirnaty product.

Second, the FDA pointed out that the licensed Pfizer Comirnaty vaccine and the existing, EUA Pfizer vaccine are “legally distinct,” but proclaims that their differences do not “impact safety or effectiveness.”

There is a huge real-world difference between products approved under EUA compared with those the FDA has fully licensed.

EUA products are experimental under U.S. law. Both the Nuremberg Code and federal regulations provide that no one can force a human being to participate in this experiment. Under 21 U.S. Code Sec.360bbb-3(e)(1)(A)(ii)(III), “authorization for medical products for use in emergencies,” it is unlawful to deny someone a job or an education because they refuse to be an experimental subject. Instead, potential recipients have an absolute right to refuse EUA vaccines."

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/mainstream-media-fda-approval-pfizer-vaccine/

So if Comirnaty is not available Biden cannot force anybody to take the EUA vaccine they want you to take. It is not FDA approved. It also lacks more liability than the FDA approved Comirnaty so you cannot be compensated for injury and death caused by it.

People should never take the EUA version. There is nothing to gain by taking it if Comirnaty is available and if it is not available Biden has no right to mandate a gene vaccine. There is your loophole. That loophole will only vanish when Comirnaty is available.

Their bait and switch tactic created the loophole. We should exploit it.