Building the wall is not the Christian thing to do

Originally posted by DeepThought
Well, first of all are you sure about that, the Pharisees were relatively oppositional and the more pedantic group were the Saducees. What do you base your claim on that what the Christian Bible says the Pharisees would have said is what the Pharisees would actually have said. The article I quoted claims that they would not have regarded his actions to be against the law.

a) The bible plainly says the Pharisees considered both healing and the man carrying his bed on the Sabbath against the law (John 5). In the OT, a man was sentenced to death just for gathering logs on the Sabbath.

b) I'm not interested in a biblical discussion. My overall point is that a claim like "children of God don't break laws" as an argument for building the wall or deporting illegals is stupid, especially when Christianity's central figure frequently broke laws.

Originally posted by vivify
a) The bible plainly says the Pharisees considered both healing and the man carrying his bed on the Sabbath against the law (John 5). In the OT, a man was sentenced to death just for gathering logs on the Sabbath.

b) I'm not interested in a biblical discussion. My overall point is that a claim like "children of God don't break laws" as an argument for ...[text shortened]... porting illegals is stupid, especially when Christianity's central figure frequently broke laws.

To be clear, you would have been one of the religious leaders who would have condemned Jesus to death because he broke the Sabbath.

Very good, much like turning your back on him altogether I suppose.

Originally posted by whodey
To be clear, you would have been one of the religious leaders who would have condemned Jesus to death because he broke the Sabbath.

Very good, much like turning your back on him altogether I suppose.

No, he's saying that because Jesus broke the law and according to Christianity is the Son of God that Checkbaiters position, that illegal immigrants are breaking the law and therefore are not the children of God, cannot be a Christian one.

Originally posted by whodey
Jesus also recognized it as the law. He did not debate that. What he debated was, is it lawful to save someone on the Sabbath? Should we be so litigious as to let someone die on the Sabbath just to avoid work being done? Jesus was arguing the that the spirit of the law was not broken, that the Sabbath was made for man, not the other way round. Jesus rig ...[text shortened]... they would pull it out on the Sabbath to save it. How much more should we do for human beings?

There was no detail in the claim. Vivify only said Jesus repeatedly broke the sabbath.
Jesus said the Pharisees added to the law that which even they did not keep.
I agree about the spirit of the law.

Originally posted by DeepThought
No, he's saying that because Jesus broke the law and according to Christianity is the Son of God that Checkbaiters position, that illegal immigrants are breaking the law and therefore are not the children of God, cannot be a Christian one.

No, that is not what I am saying. Jesus did not break the spirit of the law.
What I am saying is that illegals AND legals are not children of God. They are children of god(Satan). Children of God(Yahweh) are those who are regenerated by receiving Jesus as Lord. The whole world is full of children of the devil.
My argument is calling lawbreakers children of God. There is a legal way to enter this country.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
There was no detail in the claim. Vivify only said Jesus repeatedly broke the sabbath.

No...I said he repeatedly broke the law, by breaking the Pharisees' interpretation of the Sabbath. As you said, children of God don't break laws.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, that is not what I am saying. Jesus did not break the spirit of the law.
What I am saying is that illegals AND legals are not children of God. They are children of god(Satan). Children of God(Yahweh) are those who are regenerated by receiving Jesus as Lord. The whole world is full of children of the devil.
My argument is calling lawbreakers children of God. There is a legal way to enter this country.

Your clarification makes no sense. Either God exists and all beings endowed with souls are his children or he doesn't and your argument fails on ontological grounds.

Further the law that Jesus was reportedly accused of breaking was theological - one of the Ten Commandments. Illegal entry into a country is a secular law. Are you claiming that secular and divine law are identical? What if they contradict, which one do you keep, or are you automatically damned because of the contradiction?

Originally posted by DeepThought
Your clarification makes no sense. Either God exists and all beings endowed with souls are his children or he doesn't and your argument fails on ontological grounds.

Further the law that Jesus was reportedly accused of breaking was theological - one of the Ten Commandments. Illegal entry into a country is a secular law. Are you claiming that secula ...[text shortened]... contradict, which one do you keep, or are you automatically damned because of the contradiction?

Either God exists and all beings endowed with souls are his children or he doesn't and your argument fails on ontological grounds.
If you understood any of the bible, you would know that all people are born as children of Satan. Only when a person comes to Jesus Christ and submits to him, then he/she receives holy spirit and becomes a new creation or child of God.
I can point you to references if you would like.

Illegal entry into a country is a secular law. Are you claiming that secular and divine law are identical?
No, but we are commanded to obey the law of the land.
What if they contradict, which one do you keep, or are you automatically damned because of the contradiction?

You always keep the commandment of God, even if it goes against the law of the land.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b] Either God exists and all beings endowed with souls are his children or he doesn't and your argument fails on ontological grounds.
If you understood any of the bible, you would know that all people are born as children of Satan. Only when a person comes to Jesus Christ and submits to him, then he/she receives holy spirit and becomes a new creati ...[text shortened]... ion?[/b]

You always keep the commandment of God, even if it goes against the law of the land.[/b]

I'm curious about the references.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I'm curious about the references.

From 1 John 3

No one who is [d]born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is [e]born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: [f]anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Originally posted by Eladar
From 1 John 3

No one who is [d]born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is [e]born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: [f]anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Of course in the Greek, practice really means "habitually sins".

Originally posted by DeepThought
I'm curious about the references.

Rom 5:17
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,(Adam).
NIV

Rom 5:18
Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men(The trespass of Adam and Eve)
NIV

Rom 5:19
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
NIV


1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
NIV

2 Cor 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
KJV

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Rom 5:17
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,(Adam).
NIV

Rom 5:18
Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men(The trespass of Adam and Eve)
NIV

Rom 5:19
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the ...[text shortened]... he light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
KJV

Other than the first epistle of John, they do not mention the words "Children of God". Since the people you are trying to keep out are Christians I'm wondering about 1 John 3 verse 17: "If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?".

Originally posted by DeepThought
Other than the first epistle of John, they do not mention the words "Children of God". Since the people you are trying to keep out are Christians I'm wondering about 1 John 3 verse 17: "If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?".

Can you provide a reference for these people being Christians?
Christians are to love people but that doesn't mean tossing out common sense either.

Originally posted by DeepThought
Other than the first epistle of John, they do not mention the words "Children of God". Since the people you are trying to keep out are Christians I'm wondering about 1 John 3 verse 17: "If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?".

So if you see someone who is hungry, give that person food if you have it.

Simple enough.