Burkini ban overturned by French court

Originally posted by no1marauder
RC: any association with Islam and its ideology may reasonably be subjected to scrutiny.

I don't suppose you see anything wrong with this statement which, in effect, endorses a Holy War against a segment of a nation's citizens merely because of the violent acts of a few. I'd call it "profiling" and/or "collective punishment" both of which are deeply offensive to any idea of freedom and limited government.

Thankyou Nurse Ratched!

Quoting the Mayor of one of the vicinities in question, 'the situation here is tense, very tense.'

Ange-Pierre Vivoni is the latest French mayor to prohibit the swimwear, which is worn by some Muslim women, in the wake of Islamic extremist attacks this summer.

Vivoni said on France-Info radio Monday that the ban in his town of Sisco is aimed at calming religious tensions and protecting Muslims. The Interior Ministry says a clash Saturday in Sisco that left at least four people injured and three cars torched reportedly started over the presence of women in burkinis.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3741404/Third-French-town-bans-burkini-swimwear-tense-clash.html

Perhaps you were unaware? I therefore reject the criticism of profiling and collective punishment. Clearly the sporting of this extreme and unnecessary religious garb was deemed to be inflammatory, a threat to public order and the French Mayors were acting in the best interests of all involved. Vive Le Francais!

The post that was quoted here has been removed

And , Christian Armenians in Turkey ,1.5 million slaughtered in probably the first genocide in modern history...... by a Muslim country.( you ,Duchess can call that a "tragic event ,no doubt)
Does Duchess deny that fact ?.
I think if you are an asylum seeker and you think France is a dangerous place to go ,don't go .

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Thankyou Nurse Ratched!

Quoting the Mayor of one of the vicinities in question, 'the situation here is tense, very tense.'

Ange-Pierre Vivoni is the latest French mayor to prohibit the swimwear, which is worn by some Muslim women, in the wake of Islamic extremist attacks this summer.

Vivoni said on France-Info radio Monday that the ban in hi ...[text shortened]... rder and the French Mayors were acting in the best interests of all involved. Vive Le Francais!

Encouragement of hatred and suspicion against minorities generally does tend to make situations "very tense".

Originally posted by no1marauder
Encouragement of hatred and suspicion against minorities generally does tend to make situations "very tense".

That may be the case but there is NO evidence that the ban was intended to do that.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
That may be the case but there is NO evidence that the ban was intended to do that.

You know that statement is false and have, indeed, defended heightened scrutiny against Muslims.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Encouragement of hatred and suspicion against minorities generally does tend to make situations "very tense".

If these were Amish wanting to wear the exact same thing and with the same result, I might agree. However, I think most of the angst revolves around violent jihad within the said minority that strikes out against innocent civilians.

Originally posted by whodey
If these were Amish wanting to wear the exact same thing and with the same result, I might agree. However, I think most of the angst revolves around violent jihad within the said minority that strikes out against innocent civilians.

Is the claim that it is acceptable to discriminate against all members of a minority because of the violent actions of a few?

Originally posted by no1marauder
RC: any association with Islam and its ideology may reasonably be subjected to scrutiny.

I don't suppose you see anything wrong with this statement which, in effect, endorses a Holy War against a segment of a nation's citizens merely because of the violent acts of a few. I'd call it "profiling" and/or "collective punishment" both of which are deeply offensive to any idea of freedom and limited government.

You're beginning to sound like Rand...just kidding.

Seriously though it's nice to see the c word creeping in here No1, and an appreciation of what it means and that not all collectives are good or a justification for treating everyone within that collective according to the actions of some within that collective.

We hope not to see the same knee jerk reaction every time the word appears on the forum in the future, nor the same shriek ever time a Rand quote appears, (that would be a form of collectivism right 😉 ) whether you agree with her overall philosophy or not she had some pearlers.

"To say 'I love you' one must first be able to say the 'I.'" Ayn Rand

Originally posted by Wajoma
You're beginning to sound like Rand...just kidding.

Seriously though it's nice to see the c word creeping in here No1, and an appreciation of what it means and that not all collectives are good or a justification for treating everyone within that collective according to the actions of some within that collective.

We hope not to see the same knee jerk re ...[text shortened]... some pearlers.

"To say 'I love you' one must first be able to say the 'I.'" Ayn Rand

In Wajomastan the beaches would all be privately owned and those owners would be free to ban Muslims altogether if they felt like it. Hard to see how that would be an improvement for a despised and feared (by many) minority.

Originally posted by no1marauder
The European Court of Human Rights upheld the French burqa and niqab ban in 2014.http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/france-burqa-ban/

I see little reason to believe that they wouldn't uphold a national ban on burkinas based on that precedent. Euro courts don't take Natural Rights very seriously relying on the more squishy concept of "human rights",

Don't forget: I think anyone can wesr whatever they like, even if it's nothing.

But how the hell can wearing clothes be a bloody human rights issue?
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who wants to wear clothes which in any way can cause them to be singled out and/ or targetted is asking for it.
You can change your clothes, unlike your religion, your skin colour, the size of your bloody nose, etc.

Especially in times such as these in France.
No, mayors should not be wasting tax payers money banning burka-bikinis, but equally, if such clothing is triggering strong emotions, perhaps common sense should tell you to wear jeans and a bloody jumper instead... Until normality sets in.

Sort of like: don't drive around Texas, after an Islamic terrorist attack on the US, waving the ISIS flag about.
Yes, you should have the right to wave whatever flag you want, but common sense should tell you not to.

Yes, you can wear an England football shirt in Scotland. And so should be your right. Common sense should tell you not to wear it to the funeral of a Scottish football fan who's been kicked to death by English hooligans.

See?
Things blow over and common sense should be telling folks: now's probably not the time in France to be provoking anger and hatred over a piece of bloody clothing.
Not worth it. And it's going to go sour.

And not wearing a burkini for this Summer season is going to be the least of your worries.

Originally posted by shavixmir
Don't forget: I think anyone can wesr whatever they like, even if it's nothing.

But how the hell can wearing clothes be a bloody human rights issue?
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who wants to wear clothes which in any way can cause them to be singled out and/ or targetted is asking for it.
You can change your clothes, unlike your religion, your skin colo ...[text shortened]... r.

And not wearing a burkini for this Summer season is going to be the least of your worries.

Here's a thought: maybe the French people rather than directing their fear and hatred against their Muslim neighbors should petition their government to end their involvement in foreign military adventures which precipitated these attacks. Otherwise this situation is likely to play out for at least years and possibly decades; is that how long you expect French Muslims to comport their behavior to what French bigots desire?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Here's a thought: maybe the French people rather than directing their fear and hatred against their Muslim neighbors should petition their government to end their involvement in foreign military adventures which precipitated these attacks. Otherwise this situation is likely to play out for at least years and possibly decades; is that how long you expect French Muslims to comport their behavior to what French bigots desire?

I agree with you.
And it doesn't undermine what I wrote, but it doesn't even have much to do with it either.

Naturally there are causes and reactions which set forth any situation. And, equally naturally, they should be addressed (and preferably within an international context based on equality, with matters of profit being excluded from the main aims).

However, an education campaign about forest fire safety in the dry season, doesn't mean that lighting a BBQ in the middle of a forest fire isn't a stupid bloody idea.