27 Aug 16
Originally posted by shavixmirI'm sorry but lighting a BBQ in a forest fire actually creates some real physical risks whereas someone wearing a piece of clothing endangers no one in reality.
I agree with you.
And it doesn't undermine what I wrote, but it doesn't even have much to do with it either.
Naturally there are causes and reactions which set forth any situation. And, equally naturally, they should be addressed (and preferably within an international context based on equality, with matters of profit being excluded from the main aims) ...[text shortened]... son, doesn't mean that lighting a BBQ in the middle of a forest fire isn't a stupid bloody idea.
I went to the mall today and saw a handful of Muslim women wearing headscarves and a couple with full body coverings including one which covered her entire face but her eyes. Most were walking with their husbands and kids. My reaction wasn't "Omigod, they might have a bomb!" but "Damn they must be hot in those!(it was about 86 degrees F). But then I'm not a paranoid bigot; should normal people minding their own business have to conform their behavior to what bigots want or should bigots get over it?
27 Aug 16
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderI seem unable to convey my message to you clearly.
I'm sorry but lighting a BBQ in a forest fire actually creates some real physical risks whereas someone wearing a piece of clothing endangers no one in reality.
I went to the mall today and saw a handful of Muslim women wearing headscarves and a couple with full body coverings including one which covered her entire face but her eyes. Most were walkin ...[text shortened]... ir own business have to conform their behavior to what bigots want or should bigots get over it?
Yes, bigots have to get over their attitudes (although, since it's their attitude, I don't see them doing that by themselves).
Yes, governments have to take responsibility for their actions in foreign countries.
I'm not on about that.
I'm on about provoking in a tense situation. And in this case, a clothing situation in a country where a lot of people are worried, scared and angry.
You can choose to wear jeans and a jumper instead of a burka.
You can choose a loose-fitting, long Summer clothing instead of a burkini.
You can choose, no matter how absurd it is, to wear a swim suit (like surfers do) to the beach instead of a religiously provocative attire).
Common sense.
When in Rome, do like the Romans; especially when tensions are running high.
27 Aug 16
Originally posted by shavixmirIt serves the political interests of people like Le Pen and Sarkozy to keep tensions high by drumming up hatred and suspicion towards the French Muslim population. That dynamic will continue no matter what ordinary French Muslims do. Changing their behavior to mollify those types of people will never work, so why should they accept restrictions on their freedom to do so? Not to violate Godwin's Law, but Jews not wearing yarmulkes or long beards wouldn't have stopped the trains to Auschwitz.
I seem unable to convey my message to you clearly.
Yes, bigots have to get over their attitudes (although, since it's their attitude, I don't see them doing that by themselves).
Yes, governments have to take responsibility for their actions in foreign countries.
I'm not on about that.
I'm on about provoking in a tense situation. And in this case, a c ...[text shortened]... .
Common sense.
When in Rome, do like the Romans; especially when tensions are running high.
27 Aug 16
Originally posted by no1marauder"... I'm not a paranoid bigot; should normal people minding their own business have to conform their behavior to what bigots want or should bigots get over it?"
I'm sorry but lighting a BBQ in a forest fire actually creates some real physical risks whereas someone wearing a piece of clothing endangers no one in reality.
I went to the mall today and saw a handful of Muslim women wearing headscarves and a couple with full body coverings including one which covered her entire face but her eyes. Most were walkin ...[text shortened]... ir own business have to conform their behavior to what bigots want or should bigots get over it?
Can you hear yourself?
27 Aug 16
Originally posted by no1marauderThat's a valid point.
It serves the political interests of people like Le Pen and Sarkozy to keep tensions high by drumming up hatred and suspicion towards the French Muslim population. That dynamic will continue no matter what ordinary French Muslims do. Changing their behavior to mollify those types of people will never work, so why should they accept restrictions on their ...[text shortened]... aw, but Jews not wearing yarmulkes or long beards wouldn't have stopped the trains to Auschwitz.
But if they're deporting Jews anyway, best not to dress like one.
When there's a conflict, the chances of de-escalating it are much higher when provocative acts are minimized.
Do you think bigots are more or less likely to be persuaded when issues as mad as clothing are leading to such levels of stress?
Are you suggesting a large group of French don't feel attacked by Islamic extremists? And that they don't see Islam as a driving force behind it?
Whatever the actions leading to the reactions, the fact is there's a beseiged mentality.
I've explained more than once on this site that what you don't want is fear and poverty in Europe: We're not like the state abiding Chinese or the dopey yanks who swallow anything in the name of capitalism. We target groups and exterminate them.
What Europe, and in this case France, needs is de-escalation in the immediate and a long hard think about the why's and the how's in the medium term.
If that doesn't happen, Moslims will be dragged from their homes and murdered: no matter what the hell they're wearing.
Know thy beast!
27 Aug 16
Originally posted by lemon limeHe didn't say I was a bigot.
Really. So you believe your position is the only correct take on this, and anyone who disagrees is a bigot.
This is what I'm hearing. What are you hearing?
I don't know what you're hearing, but I presume a higher dosage of drugs is needed.
Man, not everything people write is a personal attack.
I can only feel he's calling me a bigot if I am one. If not, he's talking about another group of people.
We're discussing two different sides to an argument. We don't need to agree and I won't take it personally if he never agrees with me. Hell, he might even convince me!
Wow! Ever thought of that possibility?
Chill pal.
27 Aug 16
Originally posted by lemon limeI believe that those who support collective punishments against Muslims in a nation because of the acts of a few terrorists are: A) Paranoid; B) Bigots or more usually both A and B. That would be true no matter what group they were targeting under the same circumstances.
Really. So you believe your position is the only correct take on this, and anyone who disagrees is a bigot.
This is what I'm hearing. What are you hearing?
Nothing I have seen in this thread convinces me otherwise.
27 Aug 16
Originally posted by shavixmirshav: Are you suggesting a large group of French don't feel attacked by Islamic extremists? And that they don't see Islam as a driving force behind it?
That's a valid point.
But if they're deporting Jews anyway, best not to dress like one.
When there's a conflict, the chances of de-escalating it are much higher when provocative acts are minimized.
Do you think bigots are more or less likely to be persuaded when issues as mad as clothing are leading to such levels of stress?
Are you suggesting a la ...[text shortened]... agged from their homes and murdered: no matter what the hell they're wearing.
Know thy beast!
Yes they do. And we should be trying to convince them of the error of their beliefs.
IF individual Muslims want to change their behavior in order to try to assuage such irrational fears that's up to them though I think the chance this would have any effect is near zero. I would not try to convince them to do so, however. If this silly burkina ban stands or, more likely, is extended to all of France, it will not be the end - more repressive measures will be waiting in the wings. Sometimes you need to make a stand; the excuse that "public order" requires discrimination against a minority is a pretty malleable tool in the hands of petty tyrants (as virtually all government officials are at heart).
27 Aug 16
Originally posted by shavixmirMy comment to him had nothing to do with you, 'pal'.
He didn't say I was a bigot.
I don't know what you're hearing, but I presume a higher dosage of drugs is needed.
Man, not everything people write is a personal attack.
I can only feel he's calling me a bigot if I am one. If not, he's talking about another group of people.
We're discussing two different sides to an argument. We don't need to agree a ...[text shortened]... with me. Hell, he might even convince me!
Wow! Ever thought of that possibility?
Chill pal.
He didn't specify anyone in particular, and what I said to him had nothing specifically to do with you. I won't presume because my point was lost on you it will be lost on him as well, so I'm content to wait and see what he says.
27 Aug 16
Originally posted by lemon limeDon't butt into big people's discussions then.
My comment to him had nothing to do with you, 'pal'.
He didn't specify anyone in particular, and what I said to him had nothing specifically to do with you. I won't presume because my point was lost on you it will be lost on him as well, so I'm content to wait and see what he says.
27 Aug 16
Originally posted by no1marauderThe problem is that it's very hard to convince anyone of anything when they're emotional (especially paranoid or scared).
shav: Are you suggesting a large group of French don't feel attacked by Islamic extremists? And that they don't see Islam as a driving force behind it?
Yes they do. And we should be trying to convince them of the error of their beliefs.
IF individual Muslims want to change their behavior in order to try to assuage such irrational fears that's up t ...[text shortened]... lleable tool in the hands of petty tyrants (as virtually all government officials are at heart).
First step in de-escalation is creating room and safety (which is a feeling rather than a hard fact).
And as I've stated, I don't think banning clothes is any sortmof answer to anything. But, common sense should tell people when to take a step back.
All this being said: nobody will.
And this is going to escalate: the faeces will hit the fan.
27 Aug 16
Originally posted by no1marauder"Shove a stick of dynamite up there darling, it's the only bang you're ever gonna get"
He voiced concern in the other burkina thread that Muslim women might be hiding bombs under them.🙄
- Priscilla; queen of the desert -
Of course, it is possible to surgically remove one's breasts and bulge out with plastic explosives... It's less of a hassle, though, to dress in pink and put the bombs in your backpack.