Bush & Kerry, are either one right for America?

Originally posted by bbarr
If my mother had had an abortion on the fetus that developed into me, there would have been no 'me' to have a problem with it. How could I have had a problem with anything at all if I had been aborted? There is an interesting tendency for the anti-choice folks to project their own psychologies onto fetuses, but that is an error. Fetuses, especially early ...[text shortened]... on't have any beliefs at all, and hence cannot have any beliefs about the morality of abortion.

Sounds like the same as..."if someone had shot me yesterday i would not be here today to complain about it"

since you did not have any psychologies when you where a fetus i am asking it you now you have them. You seem to forget that you where once a fetus and thats where your life started.

Originally posted by darvlay
How are these things similar? A man cannot be compared to an unborn fetus and taking a nap is not like being in the womb. It's the choice of the woman whether or not to have the child. Some women who get pregnant are not fit, capable nor ready to have children and raise them in a healthy environment. Who are we to tell them that they absolutely must have the baby?

If the fetus has rights, then it is not the woman's choice. I can choose to walk aroung swinging my fists, but my right to swing my fists ends where another person's face begins. Our rights to autonomy are constrained by the rights of others. So, in order to establish that woman has the right to choose an abortion, it must first be established that the fetus doesn't have a right to life.

Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
Sounds like the same as..."if someone had shot me yesterday i would not be here today to complain about it"

since you did not have any psychologies when you where a fetus i am asking it you now you have them. You seem to fo ...[text shortened]... get that you where once a fetus and thats where your life started.

It's not at all the same. Yesterday, I had the capacity to complain, so it makes sense to ask me today how I would have felt yesterday about being shot.

Of course I have psychological states now.

It is true that the body I inhabit was once a fetus. It was also the mereological sum of an egg and sperm. It was also the mereological sum of all the bits of matter that went into comprising that egg and sperm. So what?

Originally posted by bbarr
I can choose to walk aroung swinging my fists, but my right to swing my fists ends where another person's face begins.

Interesting analogy.

Originally posted by bbarr
If the fetus has rights, then it is not the woman's choice. I can choose to walk aroung swinging my fists, but my right to swing my fists ends where another person's face begins. Our rights to autonomy are constrained by the rights of others. So, in order to establish that woman has the right to choose an abortion, it must first be established that the fetus doesn't have a right to life.

I would think it to be a fair deal to let the woman decide if she wants to have sex or not knowing what the consequences could be. And give a fetus the right to live once it lives. ( of course there are some exceptions to this )

Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
I would think it to be a fair deal to let the woman decide if she wants to have sex or not knowing what the consequences could be. And give a fetus the right to live once it lives. ( of course there are some exceptions to this )

Why is being alive sufficient for having a right to life?

Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
I would think it to be a fair deal to let the woman decide if she wants to have sex or not knowing what the consequences could be. And give a fetus the right to live once it lives. ( of course there are some exceptions to this )

What if that woman is a teenage girl?

Originally posted by bbarr
Why is being alive sufficient for having a right to life?

why not is a better question

Originally posted by bbarr
It's not at all the same. Yesterday, I had the capacity to complain, so it makes sense to ask me today how I would have felt yesterday about being shot.

Of course I have psychological states now.

It is true that the body I inhabit was once a fetus. It was also the mereological sum of an egg and sperm. It was also the mereological sum of all the bits of matter that went into comprising that egg and sperm. So what?

precisely! if yestersay you where a fetus then you did not have the capacity to complain

Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
why not is a better question

If being alive is sufficient for having a right to life, then everything that is alive has a right to life. That is an entailment of claiming that being alive is sufficient for a right to life. So, according to this claim, bacteria and viruses have a right to life, as do each of the cells that comprises my body. Are you prepared to accept these implications? If not, then you must deny that being alive is sufficient for having a right to life.

Originally posted by darvlay
What if that woman is a teenage girl?

what do you mean by that?

Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
precisely! if yestersay you where a fetus then you did not have the capacity to complain

Your not making any sense. Yesterday, I had the capacity to feel. Early fetuses don't have that capacity. Hence, it makes sense to ask me today how I would have felt yesterday about the prospect of being shot. It doesn't make sense to ask me today how I, as a fetus, would have felt about being aborted. Early fetuses don't feel any way at all, because they don't have the capacity to feel. Hence, I could not tell you today how I would have felt as a fetus.

Originally posted by bbarr
If being alive is sufficient for having a right to life, then everything that is alive has a right to life. That is an entailment of claiming that being alive is [b]sufficient for a right to life. So, according to this claim, bacteria and viruses have a right to life, as do each of the cells that comprises my body. Are you prepared to accept these implications? If not, then you must deny that being alive is sufficient for having a right to life.[/b]

the diffrence is that viruses and al of that do not have a consiousness and never will have it and humans do.

Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
what do you mean by that?

surely you realize that it's mainly teenage girls and young women who get these abortions. girls who can't go to their parents for the fear of being shamed, disowned and possibly beaten and can't expect any support from deadbeat boyfriends. girls who were probably tricked into having sex anyway by their horny older boyfriend or through peer pressure or because christina aguilera tells them it's okay to be sexual. surely, with all your arguments, you can't be THAT out of touch...

Originally posted by bbarr
Your not making any sense. Yesterday, I had the capacity to feel. Early fetuses don't have that capacity. Hence, it makes sense to ask me today how I would have felt yesterday about the prospect of being shot. It doesn't make sense to ask me today how I, as a fetus, would have felt about being aborted. Early fetuses don't feel any way at all, because th ...[text shortened]... ave the capacity to feel. Hence, I could not tell you today how I would have felt as a fetus.

so you can kill a man once he is drugged and cant feel it???