15 Nov 12
My ex-wife who has taught elementary school for years claims that her students who are spanked at home tend to be more physical and aggressive, and misbehave more in class. And that some of them will become jittery and sheepish in the afternoon as the school day nears an end.
While this is only anecdotal, and while there are many many variables to account for as sh78 indicates above (and thus likely impossible to draw any correlation regarding the benefits or disadvantages or effects of spanking), she is convinced that spanking does not help and actually worsens behavior. Possibly a short-term benefit for a matter of minutes or hours, but that ultimately results in worse behavior. Instead, other forms of punishment are more effective.
With my kids, I was lucky not to have to punish them that much. But when we did, time-out, grounding, and taking away privileges worked well. They hated all three.
I had a Yankee friend who was the rare moderate Baptist and who migrated down here from Massachusetts. He told me his church in Massachusetts interpreted the spare the rod spoil the child scripture to mean that if you do not use the "rod" (as a shepherd does with sheep) to guide your children, you will spoil them. That the "rod" was symbolic of guidance and nudging or prodding your child, and not of striking your child in punishment.
15 Nov 12
Originally posted by moon1969So are you saying we shouldn't be whupping on the kid like he is a red headed step child? Also would you say leaving welts on his hiney with a fishing pole is bad? I can tell you nuthin speeds up a kid to fetch a beer any better than that.
My ex-wife who has taught elementary school for years claims that her students who are spanked at home tend to be more physical and aggressive, and misbehave more in class. And that some of them will become jittery and sheepish in the afternoon as the school day nears an end.
While this is only anecdotal, and while there are many many variables to accou ...[text shortened]... f guidance and nudging or prodding your child, and not of striking your child in punishment.
15 Nov 12
Originally posted by moon1969I think there's a substantial possibility that this is a matter of correlation and not causation. Parents who spank probably have a substantial overlap with parents who are impatient or aggressive or angry. It's probably the parents' impatience and aggressiveness and anger that causes those traits to be expressed in children.
My ex-wife who has taught elementary school for years claims that her students who are spanked at home tend to be more physical and aggressive, and misbehave more in class. And that some of them will become jittery and sheepish in the afternoon as the school day nears an end.
While this is only anecdotal, and while there are many many variables to accou ...[text shortened]... f guidance and nudging or prodding your child, and not of striking your child in punishment.
I'm not talking about real abuse here. Obviously, that's harmful. But I really don't see why a swat on the butt would be that much more psychologically damaging than a timeout or a scolding or some sort of privilege deprivation.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I have never once hit any of my children and I don't plan to (unless I believe that I have to). But I know plenty of parents who use minor forms of corporal punishment and I really don't see it having a negative impact on their children. I think angry looks and psychological abuse like screaming, subjecting children to the silent treatment or withdrawing affection as punishment are worse.
15 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by sh76Good points. I view spanking at three levels.
I think there's a substantial possibility that this is a matter of correlation and not causation. Parents who spank probably have a substantial overlap with parents who are impatient or aggressive or angry. It's probably the parents' impatience and aggressiveness and anger that causes those traits to be expressed in children.
I'm not talking about real abuse ting children to the silent treatment or withdrawing affection as punishment are worse.
1. The first is when the mother does a weak swat at the child that at most grazes the child on the behind and not some ritual, instead in the moment. While still physical and maybe harmful, as a kid I do not remember being scared or threaten by my mother when she did this, but in some ways felt sorry for her trying to manage a household with six unruly boys. The "spanking" for sure never really physically hurt or caused physical pain that I can remember. My guess is that this weak swat has the least negative effect on kids behavior in school.
2. The second is the ritual and firm spanking. Relatively measured and controlled. The traditional spanking. Maybe with a belt or a paddle or a switch. Not necessarily a beating but there is pain and possibly some minor marks. But not an overly-aggressive beating or with undue anger. I don't think this helps kids. I think it generally worsens behavior. That is my bias. I think maybe negligible effect on some kids, and more pronounced (negative) effect on other kids, and no or rare positive effect.
3. The third is the beating. Anger. Out of control. Mental abuse.
15 Nov 12
Originally posted by moon1969How does she know that these kids are getting spanked at home?
My ex-wife who has taught elementary school for years claims that her students who are spanked at home tend to be more physical and aggressive, and misbehave more in class. And that some of them will become jittery and sheepish in the afternoon as the school day nears an end.
Originally posted by wolfgang59Researchers found that 99% to 100% of children who were not spanked became as*h*les who grew up to fervently believe that they were entitled to other people's money.
Researchers found 2 percent to 7 percent of mental disorders were attributable to physical punishment.
http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token
15 Nov 12
Originally posted by moon19691. Par for the course.
Good points. I view spanking at three levels.
1. The first is when the mother does a weak swat at the child that at most grazes the child on the behind and not some ritual, instead in the moment. While still physical and maybe harmful, as a kid I do not remember being scared or threaten by my mother when she did this, but in some ways felt sorry for h ...[text shortened]... are positive effect.
3. The third is the beating. Anger. Out of control. Mental abuse.
2. See you in the BDSM club when you're legal.
3. Will end up painting clowns in prison.
15 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by sasquatch672That would explain the corporate raider Bain capitalists of this world wouldn't it.
Researchers found that 99% to 100% of children who were not spanked became as*h*les who grew up to fervently believe that they were entitled to other people's money.
Aren't most on the right fervently in favour of physical discipline? And it doesn't stop there. Hazing rituals at college are just an extension of all that. Being ritually shamed and hurt in the presence of your fraternity. What better way to develop that thick skin required to sack a few thousand here and gouge out a few million there.....
15 Nov 12
Originally posted by kmax87And still none of them are a patch on Putin.
That would explain the corporate raider Bain capitalists of this world wouldn't it.
Aren't most on the right fervently in favour of physical discipline? And it doesn't stop there. Hazing rituals at college are just an extension of all that. Being ritually shamed and hurt in the presence of your fraternity. What better way to develop that thick skin required to sack a few thousand here and gouge out a few million there.....
15 Nov 12
Originally posted by kmax87http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/news/texas-southern-university-students-kicked-band-hazing-220529906--nfl.html?orig_host_hdr=news.yahoo.com&.intl=US&.lang=en-US
That would explain the corporate raider Bain capitalists of this world wouldn't it.
Aren't most on the right fervently in favour of physical discipline? And it doesn't stop there. Hazing rituals at college are just an extension of all that. Being ritually shamed and hurt in the presence of your fraternity. What better way to develop that thick skin required to sack a few thousand here and gouge out a few million there.....
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/11543010/
http://flcourier.com/2012/11/15/hovering-over-the-classic/
15 Nov 12
Originally posted by sasquatch672Of course the spectacle of a child refusing to go to school and standing there defiant to the parents as if saying what are you going to do about it, increases with the lack of discipline. The anti spankers will always say that if you have a loving relationship with your child and can communicate well with them it isn't a problem. Of course that is as realistic as santa clause. The government will create the most rude unruly generation ever seen if spanking is done away with.
Researchers found that 99% to 100% of children who were not spanked became as*h*les who grew up to fervently believe that they were entitled to other people's money.