24 May 19
@phranny saidYou'll have ti defiine'should be able' and 'deserve to earn'. To use those terms implies that someone or something has a debt to that person, to make everything right for them. This is serious liberalism, at its best. Everyone in this country is 'able' to earn, I would go so far as to say they 'shoul' be able, but quite a stretch to say they deserve, thus, they are owed such and such. Not necessarily. If they are washing dishes, their pay is probably not enough for a pure living wage, covering everything you set out.
A company needs one CEO and workers. The bigger the company, the more workers. Those workers should be able to earn a living wage. Many people are not interested in becoming super rich. They want to be teachers, nurses, retail workers, food service workers, police officers, factory workers, white collar office workers and the list goes on. They deserve to earn enough from the ...[text shortened]... od, health care, transportation and savings for their children's education and their own retirement.
So, what about the guy who washes dishes. Truly, just what does he 'deserve' to get him comforotable, and from whom?
25 May 19
@phranny saidPhranny, if we were part of 100 people in a tribe on an island , corps have no obligation or duty to hire Anybody. If taxpayers 'must pick up the tab healthcare for tribesmen', what in the WORLD does the corporation have to do with what is going on down the street at the healthcare office?????
If this corporation is paying every employee a wage high enough so they do not qualify for any tax breaks due to low income, great. It's corporations paying workers so little that taxpayers must pick up the tab for their healthcare and they can't afford to save for retirement or their children's education or other necessities without assistance.
This may be the best example of liberal nanny-state reasoning I have ever seen. Y'all seem to tie everyone all together , we are all in the same bed, we all have one big pie to nibble on. Are you Bernie, writing under a pseudonym?
You think corporations........oh never mind, i dont think i can formulate a question you can decipher. 1 + 1 does not equal 2, does it.
25 May 19
@Mott-The-Hoople many, based on their location and/or skill set and families they must support are forced to take jobs that keep them impoverished. You need money to move. You need money to go to school. Even if tuition is covered, your room and board and transportation are not. Let's set aside any moral or ethical considerations and focus on what is best for the economic growth and security of the United States. Countries with well educated, healthy citizens are better able to exploit their resources and grow economically. Children, especially if they are not wanted, end up being a financial burden on society. Let women decide if they want children. The cheapest and safest way to do this is to make birth control readily available and free.
Freedom of religion means you get to decide on your personal choices based on your personal religion. It does not mean you get to impose your religion on others. That includes the abortion issue and the meritocracy belief many Americans seem to adhere to claiming the Bible supports that you get what you deserve in life. If you are rich, you earned it even if it is inherited wealth and if you are poor you earned it even if you grew up in a deeply impoverished family of color with few opportunities.
25 May 19
1 edit
@averagejoe1 saidAgain, you are advocating giving the dishwasher's employer a subsidy paid for by my taxes. My taxes will end up being used to provide health care and other services to the dishwasher who is not earning enough to provide for themselves. These laws have been designed by corporations so they can get away with freeloading off the taxpayer. It is corporations who end up on the dole, not the worker. This is especially true now that unions have been decimated.
You'll have ti defiine'should be able' and 'deserve to earn'. To use those terms implies that someone or something has a debt to that person, to make everything right for them. This is serious liberalism, at its best. Everyone in this country is 'able' to earn, I would go so far as to say they 'shoul' be able, but quite a stretch to say they deserve, thus, they are ow ...[text shortened]... e guy who washes dishes. Truly, just what does he 'deserve' to get him comforotable, and from whom?
25 May 19
@AverageJoe1 we are a nation of people who have freely agreed to live under the rule of law as set forth in the constitution as well as state and municipal laws. No man is an island. Every corporation benefits from the infrastructure my taxes support. Just try to grow your business in a country with little or no government and little or no government supported infrastructure, including education and health care.
25 May 19
@phranny saidNo man is an island is not the founding principles of this nation. It is the founding principle of the serf.
@AverageJoe1 we are a nation of people who have freely agreed to live under the rule of law as set forth in the constitution as well as state and municipal laws. No man is an island. Every corporation benefits from the infrastructure my taxes support. Just try to grow your business in a country with little or no government and little or no government supported infrastructure, including education and health care.
25 May 19
@phranny saidWhy do you not mention 'personal responsibility'. Why do you not mention life-choices, like having children, or getting married for that matter. when you cannot afford them? You describe this unfortunate blob of bad choices as a guy who doesn't understand why he can't get ahead in the world, and then you imply that we all need to STOP getting ahead (saving money, having maybe one child, always looking for a better job) and take some of our work product and support him so he will stop having babies or some such. When did I incur a debt to this guy?
@Mott-The-Hoople many, based on their location and/or skill set and families they must support are forced to take jobs that keep them impoverished. You need money to move. You need money to go to school. Even if tuition is covered, your room and board and transportation are not. Let's set aside any moral or ethical considerations and focus on what is best for the economic gro ...[text shortened]... r you earned it even if you grew up in a deeply impoverished family of color with few opportunities.
You are a liberal, you think we are all in bed together, and we pass this pie around to nibble on. One of us may get out of bed, go work, and then I guess bring more pie into the bed. If somebody gets pregnant while he is gone, why, he just has to deal with this problem, a new member of the group. He is then asked to spend his money for her birth control. He sees she has a cell phone. (she does, trust me). He says I will only buy birth control pills for you who are destitute, which is what Jesus would say.
But not for losers, or people who dont get out of bed to work. You know, some people work harder than others. How do you libs POSSIBLY deal with such conflict.
Abortion? A woman says she has a right to decide about her body.....That is not what she is deciding about. She is deciding about a living heart-beating baby occupying space in her body. That body.....Not HER body. Help me Rhonda. And it has NOTHING to do with religion.
25 May 19
1 edit
@AverageJoe1
There is no room for personal responsibility on the manor. Each serf simply does as instructed by the government.
25 May 19
@phranny saidWould you explain these 2 sentences?
Again, you are advocating giving the dishwasher's employer a subsidy paid for by my taxes. My taxes will end up being used to provide health care and other services to the dishwasher who is not earning enough to provide for themselves.
25 May 19
@phranny saidPhranny......OK, my business benefits from the street which runs to my business and frankly, from the military jet protecting me overhead. We get that.
@AverageJoe1 we are a nation of people who have freely agreed to live under the rule of law as set forth in the constitution as well as state and municipal laws. No man is an island. Every corporation benefits from the infrastructure my taxes support. Just try to grow your business in a country with little or no government and little or no government supported infrastructure, including education and health care.
But Phranny, I pay taxes that cover these items, and the deli business down the street pays the same thing. If everyone pays for the same overall benefits, how in the world do you single out my business as if I am benefitting over and above everyone else on the street??? Everyone wrote a check, to the government(s) and bought this infrastructure, dont you see.
You are right , the govt supports the infrastructure. I pay my 'fair share' (ughh, Obama term) of taxes for that support, for that infrastructure. I am thus an island.
25 May 19
@eladar saidhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Join,_or_Die
No man is an island is not the founding principles of this nation. It is the founding principle of the serf.
25 May 19
@eladar saidThat's a pithy, fortune cookie type statement that is completely false:
No man is an island is not the founding principles of this nation. It is the founding principle of the serf.
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/preamble
25 May 19
@athousandyoung saidI love ya' thousand> But I just cant be a'clicking on links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Join,_or_Die
25 May 19
@no1marauder saidYou can tell what they meant by the society they set up. What they were thinking clearly is not what you are thinking.
That's a pithy, fortune cookie type statement that is completely false:
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent res ...[text shortened]... or the United States of America.
https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/preamble