Death because of poverty

Originally posted by generalissimo
howardgee (aka obamafanatic) enjoys living in ''civilised society'' , why worry about work if you could live in a welfare state, where citizens are dependent and less inclined to work?

oh poor howargee, who dreams about a place where people rely solely upon the state for income and support instead of doing things on their own.

Why is it one thing or the other?

Most countries have both. A culture where people are encouraged and want to work and to "get on" tempered with an belief that there is some responsibility towards the society that provided you with the opportunity in the first place.

I was having a discussion with the head office Chief of Staff of a large (for Scandinavia) global company today and he was very interested in both how to move the company financially forward and upwards but spoke just as passionately about the well being of many people considered by many to be an under class.

This is not so uncommon as you would think.

Originally posted by howardgee
"Isn't the person that takes better care of themselves more deserving"

Arguably. yes. And in civilised societies with universal health care, people can be refused treatment if they are morbidly obese, for example.

But that is not the point here is it? In Yanksville, people are not treated because they are fit, but because they are rich!

Howie you're struggling with the concept of "civilised"

Civlised:

A person buys something at the shop, they hand across the money. The store keeper says "Thank you", the person that has just bought something says "Thank you" A voluntary exchange of value for value has taken place in a civilised manner.

Not Civilised:

A bunch of sheep get together and form a mob "baaaa baaaaa our mob is baaaabigger than your mobbaaa we're going to be the guvamint baaaa baaaa" The guvamint then says "Give us x dollars whether you like it or not, or we're going to take it anyway by force if neccessary." In return we're going to give you y whether you like it or not, and it'll be in our own good bureauratical time." No one says "Thank you" honestly.

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
They have different ways of doing things in North Korea and Cuba. Perhaps you'd be happier in either of those two countries?

Those are dictatorships. Why don't you take a look in countries where democratic socialism, to more and lesser extent, has been implemented? E.g. all of western and northern Europe.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Howie you're struggling with the concept of "civilised"

Civlised:

A person buys something at the shop, they hand across the money. The store keeper says "Thank you", the person that has just bought something says "Thank you" A voluntary exchange of value for value has taken place in a civilised manner.

Not Civilised:

A bunch of sheep get together ...[text shortened]... 'll be in our own good bureauratical time." No one says "Thank you" honestly.

So the police, fire department, army and highways are uncivilized?

Originally posted by generalissimo
howardgee (aka obamafanatic) enjoys living in ''civilised society'' , why worry about work if you could live in a welfare state, where citizens are dependent and less inclined to work?

oh poor howargee, who dreams about a place where people rely solely upon the state for income and support instead of doing things on their own.

If an extensive welfare state discourages working, explain why some countries with large social security systems have lower unemployment than the US.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
So the police, fire department, army and highways are uncivilized?

of course they aren't.

Don't you get Wajoma's point?

Originally posted by howardgee
"So will my Venezuelan relatives, Cuban refugees, and any other immigrant that values being rewarded for the work they do rather than for being a member of a special interest group."

What, by being forced to work for minimum wage lower in real terms than the 1950's thanks to Bush, without health care?
You really are a nasty piece of work.

As for you ...[text shortened]... free, of course. I bet that victory gin is leaving a bitter taste in your mouth now, dumbo!

No reply to this, eh DSR?

You really are spineless - as soon as your arguments are shot down in flames, you disappear without trace.

Originally posted by generalissimo
of course they aren't.

Don't you get Wajoma's point?

Well, I understand that Wajoma, like all libertarians, hasn't understood game theory and how it is relevant to economics.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
If an extensive welfare state discourages working, explain why some countries with large social security systems have lower unemployment than the US.

Don't the police force people to work in those countries? What countries do you mean specifically?

Andorra and Monaco, both legendary tax havens, have the lowest unemployment in the world according to wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Well, I understand that Wajoma, like all libertarians, hasn't understood game theory and how it is relevant to economics.

Please enlighten us, oh condescending one.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Don't the police force people to work in those countries? What countries do you mean specifically?

Andorra and Monaco, both legendary tax havens, have the lowest unemployment in the world according to wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate

On that list you can see Norway with 2.1%. Norway has very high taxes.

And no, in Norway people are not forced by the police to work, lmao.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Please enlighten us, oh condescending one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma