Democracy

@kazetnagorra said
Reform the voting system into a multi-party democracy.

UK now has a serious 3rd party. And it happened in a few months.

@kazetnagorra said
Reforming the voting system is enough, people are more inclined to vote if they have more meaningful choices rather than having to choose between (what they feel are) two bad choices. For example, turnout in the last elections in Sweden was 87% even without obligatory voting.

There is nothing wrong with our voting system. These parties will not have traction in a general election, people realize they matter. I voted Green, not out of support for them, but to weaken the pro-hard Brexit group so that May would remain Primeminister since she knew how to maintain political space with regard to Trump. I think others voted tactically as well and people have worked out that lying to pollsters gets policies they desire through.

@deepthought said
There is nothing wrong with our voting system. These parties will not have traction in a general election, people realize they matter. I voted Green, not out of support for them, but to weaken the pro-hard Brexit group so that May would remain Primeminister since she knew how to maintain political space with regard to Trump. I think others voted tactically as well and people have worked out that lying to pollsters gets policies they desire through.

That's a lot wrong with your voting system - in fact, it's the main reason the U.K. has fallen behind the most prosperous European societies (all of which are multi-party democracies).

@kazetnagorra said
That's a lot wrong with your voting system - in fact, it's the main reason the U.K. has fallen behind the most prosperous European societies (all of which are multi-party democracies).

In fact saying 'in fact' does not give your post special truth powers. You have no proof that A caused B.

...better to say "in my not so humble opinion A caused B".

@kazetnagorra said
That's a lot wrong with your voting system - in fact, it's the main reason the U.K. has fallen behind the most prosperous European societies (all of which are multi-party democracies).

It's not so such the voting system that's wrong, as Britons' horror of coalition governments and the unwillingness of the two main parties in Britain to work together to find, not compromise (where no one gets what he wants), but consensus (to which everyone can sign on in good faith).

@kazetnagorra said
That's a lot wrong with your voting system - in fact, it's the main reason the U.K. has fallen behind the most prosperous European societies (all of which are multi-party democracies).

I really do not think that introducing PR is going to solve Britain's economic problems. The difficulties are structural and connected with over reliance on banking and services. These won't go away and will be even harder to address under a PR system. The benefit of the first past the post system is that it is, in general, decisive as well as clear in that one's MP is one's representative and is entirely reliant on voter support. In a PR system that becomes muddied.

@kazetnagorra said
That's a lot wrong with your voting system - in fact, it's the main reason the U.K. has fallen behind the most prosperous European societies (all of which are multi-party democracies).

You just throw this stuff again the forum wall and hope it sticks don’t you...

@deepthought said
I really do not think that introducing PR is going to solve Britain's economic problems. The difficulties are structural and connected with over reliance on banking and services. These won't go away and will be even harder to address under a PR system. The benefit of the first past the post system is that it is, in general, decisive as well as clear in that one's MP is ...[text shortened]... one's representative and is entirely reliant on voter support. In a PR system that becomes muddied.

Do you think it's just a massive coincidence that all of the world's most prosperous societies are multi-party democracies with some form of proportional representation?

If you want districts you can use the German implementation of PR, but in practice it makes little difference with respect to the accountability of politicians or how well-represented people feel.

@wajoma said
UK now has a serious 3rd party. And it happened in a few months.

What is more laughable;
Brexit as a serious 3rd party
or
Wackoma talking about British politics.
?

Tough call.

@moonbus said
It's not so such the voting system that's wrong, as Britons' horror of coalition governments and the unwillingness of the two main parties in Britain to work together to find, not compromise (where no one gets what he wants), but consensus (to which everyone can sign on in good faith).

The "horror of coalition governments" and a lack of culture of compromise are a direct result of the two-party system.

@wolfgang59 said
What is more laughable;
Brexit as a serious 3rd party
or
Wackoma talking about British politics.

On what basis do you find it laughable that Brexit Party would be a serious 3rd party?

@kazetnagorra said
Do you think it's just a massive coincidence that all of the world's most prosperous societies are multi-party democracies with some form of proportional representation?

If you want districts you can use the German implementation of PR, but in practice it makes little difference with respect to the accountability of politicians or how well-represented people feel.

I am happy with the basic system as it is. There are problems with the House of Lords due to too many politicians having been given seats and it has become overcrowded. The purpose of the Upper Chamber should be to have experts from various fields who have actual influence over the content of legislation, rather than as outsiders complaining to the media. I do not think Britain's political difficulties have much to do with the electoral system. We would have these problems under PR as well. Since both major parties are at best ambivalent to Europe it is not obvious to me that a PR system would have prevented this crisis. You have latched on to a single feature of the British system and seem to think that making one change will solve all the other problems. I'd point out that both Spain and Italy have well documented problems and have the electoral systems of the type you are advocating.

@wolfgang59 said
What is more laughable;
Brexit as a serious 3rd party
or
Wackoma talking about British politics.
?

Tough call.

Given you're whack assessment of Peterborough at the beginning of this thread your comment here would be laughable if it weren't such a stone cold loser.

@wajoma said
Given you're whack assessment of Peterborough at the beginning of this thread your comment here would be laughable if it weren't such a stone cold loser.

I dismissed both Labour's and Brexit's claims of victory.
And said UKIP and Conservatives were losers.

But, as you might have deduced from the thread title, I wanted to
discuss the poor turnout and the apathy that threatens democracy.

Now its surely past your bedtime?