24 Aug 07
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterSee! You're doing it again!
Should we not judge other societies by how well they treat their children, women, the elderly or the mentally challenged?
However, personally, I'd agree that these are good measures but some societies may not.
Regardless, you will find societies that are worse than yours and better than yours in all of these categories. I would suspect that in particular, care of the elderly is much better in the contries you claim as under developed than it is in the US and much of Europe.
24 Aug 07
Originally posted by MacSwainExactly. One of the defining characteristics of communism is the apparent efficiency of the police and the legal system. Very little time is wasted on long court hearings, lawyers, appeals, etc etc.
I must accept your first hand knowledge of what you saw. It's possible Castro puts that element away without the formalities. The fact cannot be denied that in the late 70's Castro obviously had a "jail-house" overload!
*quote from article in WikiPedia
"I am sure that Cubans also remember the Muriel Boat Lift fiasco of Jimmy Carter in 1978. Carter accepted all the violent criminals Castro unloaded on us."
24 Aug 07
1 edit
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterYoure right about most of that, except maybe for malnutrition. Cubans appear to be healthy ... slim and fit and not overweight. They have to survive without the fatty imported snacks etc. Their diet is mostly rice, flour, lots of black beans and chicken (when its available), and pork (very common). They have very little seasoning and almost no ketchup. The food is bland. You wont think so becuase Cuban food in Miami is certainly not bland. Cuba produces some beef but its not available to the common people.
The reason there is no crime in Cuba is that there is nothing to steal and they're too weak from malnutrition. Did you know that in the 1840s, Cuba's plantation slaves ate better than the slaves who live under Castro do today? The reason they gather round the fire and sing and dance so much is because there's not much work and there aren't many c ...[text shortened]... sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=14372
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=14497
This might surprise some, but prostitution is the norm. Castro basically removed the influence of the chruch since 1960. The police controls it by checking ID cards of the girls walking around. Girls resident outside of Havana are not allowed to 'sell' in the city. You can approach any female of your choice and say "quantos'. They will smile and tell you their price or say no thanks. I found that amazing. The boyfriends dont mind. the parents dont mind. Its expected of the girls - they start at around 15. Girls will spend the night with you for $100 US. Thats like 6 to 10 month's avg salary. Imagine an American girl being paid $20,000 US for one night of sex !! Morals might get cast aside !!
24 Aug 07
Originally posted by MacSwainMS, Redmike and Shav believe that communism never existed. They refer to what existed in the former USSR as 'state capitalism'. So there is no way really to argue against communism and claim that historically it has failed.
You say:
"none of these countries ever even claimed to be communist."
Answer: Political office in the USSR required being a member communist party.
"communism by definition, cannot exist in a single country." Your UNATRIBUTED definition, please give source.
Answer: Even using your stretched definition....Do you think the USSR was made up of only one country? Please 😴 Give source for that revelation.
Since 1986 when the Berlin wall fell, I thought proponents of communism wont be able to show their face again in public. But they have found a way.
24 Aug 07
Originally posted by WheelyIf thats what you meant, then you are absolutely correct. I thought you meant that the state in 3W coutries provide for the elderly.
I suspect, though don't know it, because the idea of a care home for the elderly is utterly mind boggling for many cultures. The elderly are cared for at home by the children. No questions asked.
24 Aug 07
Originally posted by Rajk999I think not. One can choose to hide behind a lie, but will find it offers no shelter except within their own dilusion and invites ridicule from associates.
MS, Redmike and Shav believe that communism never existed. They refer to what existed in the former USSR as 'state capitalism'.
Since 1986 -- I thought proponents of communism wont be able to show their face again in public. But they have found a way.
24 Aug 07
Originally posted by Rajk999That's the No True Scotsman logical fallacy.
MS, Redmike and Shav believe that communism never existed. They refer to what existed in the former USSR as 'state capitalism'. So there is no way really to argue against communism and claim that historically it has failed.
Since 1986 when the Berlin wall fell, I thought proponents of communism wont be able to show their face again in public. But they have found a way.
24 Aug 07
Originally posted by Rajk999I think you'll find that many, if not most, 'proponents of communism', didn't think the USSR was communist prior to 1986 either.
MS, Redmike and Shav believe that communism never existed. They refer to what existed in the former USSR as 'state capitalism'. So there is no way really to argue against communism and claim that historically it has failed.
Since 1986 when the Berlin wall fell, I thought proponents of communism wont be able to show their face again in public. But they have found a way.
24 Aug 07
Originally posted by RedmikeHow about in 1915 ?
I think you'll find that many, if not most, 'proponents of communism', didn't think the USSR was communist prior to 1986 either.
In any event what would you do different were you in charge to ensure that communism worked the way you wanted it to ?
25 Aug 07
1 edit
no system of government is sustainable, when there are no checks and balances. Countries with dictators, oligarchies,etc...people have no protection or voice. Over years and decades the system crumbles and decays as apathy and despair become a way of life.
A prime example; the US has slowly in the last 30 years become an oligarchy, with a corresponding decline in society
25 Aug 07
Originally posted by duecerMost excellent Duecer!
no system of government is sustainable, when there are no checks and balances. Countries with dictators, oligarchies,etc...people have no protection or voice. Over years and decades the system crumbles and decays as apathy and despair become a way of life.
A prime example; the US has slowly in the last 30 years become an oligarchy, with a corresponding decline in society
Over the past 30 years USA has accelerated its move, begun in 1932, from a Republic to factual Democracy. Listen to news in USA for past decade or so and the country now sets policy by polls!