Originally posted by dottewellA fantasy is of course linked to some form of desire (or some other emotion), but that's no reason to think it will be acted on. There are many ways to channel desires other than to actually act on the fantasy itself.
"Fantasy" is a reasonably well understood psychological term, generally linked to desire.
In fact, that's quite normal in our everyday lifes. You may realise you have a great desire for a woman whom doesn't pay you the attention of a simple hi even (or for some other reason won't engage intimately with you). This may make you want to ruin her day (if even in small petty things), but you don't. Any sensible person will see that they're not the center of the universe, and therefore learn to live with some desires that are not to be acted on. And find some other way to deal with those desires.
Fantasising about it can actually help you stay "normal" in real life (even when opportunity do present itself). Fantasies can help give you an outlet for those desires in a safe way. They can also help you understand yourself better. No matter the reason for the desires, you will learn to deal with them through fantasies (unless your fantasies are starting to involve plans on how to act them out for real). That's the whole point of elaborating certain thoughts (invoking certain feelings or other physical reactions) into fantasies. The more destructive the desires (if acted on), the more important to work with them, I'd say.
In this sense, it's even healthy to fantasise about whatever sick perversion turns you on. It helps keep things under control.
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There seem to be a general concensus among psychologists that "abnormal" fantasies are usually the cause of a deeper emotional or psychological problem a person has (possibly from childhood or some traumatic experience). But if a person has fantasies unacceptable in real life, though they are associated with desire of some kind, but doesn't desire to act on them, there's no problem. It could be interesting trying to figure out from where those fantasies come, but it's not necessary.
Originally posted by stockenIn general, it's been established in this thread that a fantasy, in itself, is not actually dangerous or something to be ashamed of.
A fantasy is of course linked to some form of desire (or some other emotion), but that's no reason to think it will be acted on. There are many ways to channel desires other than to actually act on the fantasy itself.
In fact, that's quite normal in our everyday lifes. You may realise you have a great desire for a woman whom doesn't pay you the attention ...[text shortened]... ng trying to figure out from where those fantasies come, but it's not necessary.
One point hasn't been discussed much apart from my earlier feeble attempts to frame it is to what extent a fantasy might tell us something about ourselves. If it does say something then could it suggest an issue of some kind that it would benefit us to deal with.
Using the example we had about a hundred and fifty years ago when this thread began, would anybody agree that it COULD show a lack of self confidence in a particular area that it might be beneficial for the fantasiser to at least look at.
The fantasy described was of a violent rape where the the victim initially fought back and then succumbed to the "talents" of the rapist and becomes a willing participant. Unless, of course, this is a common fantasy, and just a part being a human being then to me, I feel that this fantasy COULD indicate some things. Of course, this has to be taken in the context of the main purpose of the fantasy i.e sexual gratification and excitement. I am asking why is this scenario attractive not whether it should or shouldn't be. So, underlying this fantasy might be a disproportionate emphasis on technical sex, a feeling of not being immediately attractive (coupled with the idea that this is particularly important) and possibly, in a bad case, a feeling that worth is attainable through impressive sexual performance.
I'm not saying these ARE features of this fantasy from this individual but that they COULD be from someone having a similar fantasy. If they are, then the fantasy has shown some areas that the fantasiser could benefit from looking at.
My point therefore is that getting turned on by something that is not particularly usual MIGHT be a indication that there are some issues around.
Originally posted by stockenWell gee thanks, doctor, but if I had such profoundly disturbing desires I'd guess I'd think the right course of action would be to seek the immediate help of a medical health professional rather than to luxuriate in them and then post about it in a "special clan" on a chess website.
A fantasy is of course linked to some form of desire (or some other emotion), but that's no reason to think it will be acted on. There are many ways to channel desires other than to actually act on the fantasy itself.
In fact, that's quite normal in our everyday lifes. You may realise you have a great desire for a woman whom doesn't pay you the attention ...[text shortened]... ng trying to figure out from where those fantasies come, but it's not necessary.
Originally posted by WheelyI would venture to say that some would see such a fantasy as a representation of their own desires to have their greatness (skills, talent ect.) acknowledged and the frustrations they may feel at any lack of acknowledgment. It generally manifests in passive personalities. People that struggle with asertiveness and often go overlooked in the work place or other such social enviroments. The fantasy has less to do with actual sex than the inner aggression that gets built up by not asserting oneself in social surroundings. In this particular scenario, having the woman sucumband derive pleasure from the act of violence could simply represent the conscience mind realizing that if a little more assertive behaviours were enforced the results would ensure a positive reaction, the desired reaction.
In general, it's been established in this thread that a fantasy, in itself, is not actually dangerous or something to be ashamed of.
One point hasn't been discussed much apart from my earlier feeble attempts to frame it is to what extent a fantasy might tell us something about ourselves. If it does say something then could it suggest an issue of some ki ...[text shortened]... ng that is not particularly usual MIGHT be a indication that there are some issues around.
Holy crap...you know it's late when.....time for bed I think.
Originally posted by mokkoGood analysis Mokko. Nicely balanced too.
I would venture to say that some would see such a fantasy as a representation of their own desires to have their greatness (skills, talent ect.) acknowledged and the frustrations they may feel at any lack of acknowledgment. It generally manifests in passive personalities. People that struggle with asertiveness and often go overlooked in the work place or other ...[text shortened]... action, the desired reaction.
Holy crap...you know it's late when.....time for bed I think.
If we accept your scenario as one possible root of this particular fantasy then would you agree that self assertiveness would be one thing the fantasiser might benefit from looking into a bit?
I suspect that this little discussion, for me at least, is refining my earlier reaction to this thread somewhat. I am much more on the side of an "unacceptable" fantasy with no intention of it spilling over into reality is actually a healthy thing, particularly if it allows us to consider our reasons for finding an "unacceptable" subject matter attractive, given the premise that most people don't.
Again I'll stress that I am not saying unusual fantasies have to be a reflection of some issue we have but that they MIGHT be in some cases.
Originally posted by WheelyAnd sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, I know.
Good analysis Mokko. Nicely balanced too.
If we accept your scenario as one possible root of this particular fantasy then would you agree that self assertiveness would be one thing the fantasiser might benefit from looking into a bit?
I suspect that this little discussion, for me at least, is refining my earlier reaction to this thread somewhat. I am tasies have to be a reflection of some issue we have but that they MIGHT be in some cases.
My scenario could be one possibility but when you're dealing with the fantasies of an individual there are many more things that have to be examined. In this particular example it would have to be well established the persons other various traits as well. For examlpe is this person actually passive in nature or are they normally aggressive. It would change the whole dynamic of the fantasy.
As well you would have to know the persons sexually history and details of various experiences. If the person was a virgin as opposed to someone who's had muliple sex partners it would again change the dynamic of the fantasy.
(Opps I prematurely ejaculated the post button!)
I agree that with any given fantasy or even reacurring dreams a person should be open to delving a little deeper into the context of the imagery.
Dreams and fantasies are meant to speak to us. They're not random in any sense of the word but manifestations of our inner emotional state. And while it's all fine and good to simply go with the flow and enjoy them at face value on occassion it doesn't hurt to take a deeper look at them now and again either.
Originally posted by mokkoYes, agreed. These things are never as simple as we'd sometimes like them to be but will seem even more complex if we don't get enough sleep!!!!
And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, I know.
My scenario could be one possibility but when you're dealing with the fantasies of an individual there are many more things that have to be examined. In this particular example it would have to be well established the persons other various traits as well. For examlpe is this person actually passive in nature o ...[text shortened]... d to someone who's h ad muliple sex partners it would again change the dynamic of the fantasy.
Well, now. This last part (Mokko - Wheely) was certainly the most interesting and worthwhile in this whole thread. Well done, to both of you. 🙂
Let's take a look at me and my fantasies, shall we? I am a 33 year old single man, and I haven't had real sex in about six months. How long have I had my rape fantasy (in various versions)? About 5 to 6 years. Is it a fantasy that pops up on it's own when I'm not wishing it to? Sometimes. Do I have a problem focusing on work or other things because of it? No. Do I have the desire to actually go out and rape women? No.
Then how is it that I have such a violent fantasy, and I can use it for pleasure? Wheely, you suggested that it could be a self-confidence issue. I suppose you're right. It could be. If I have a problem getting to first contact with women (or a particular woman) for one reason or the other, then those fantasies could be a way to (at least in fantasy) get past that whole initial "getting her interested and seduce her" part. Just skip straight to the sex where I can show how incredibly good I am in bed and then she'll need no social skill from me whatsoever. 😵 It's a somewhat amusing thought, but sad if it's true. See, if I have this problem I should seek help in learning how to get past the first few dates. (Another interesting topic, by the way.) I should focus more on fantasising how I can seduce a woman for real (what I can say, how I can act, when it's appropriate to do this or that), and then talk about those fantasies with people who wouldn't taunt me about it. I honestly don't have a problem getting some women to like me, so it's not really about that for me, but it was definitely an interesting angle you gave there.
Now, if I'm not carrying around a poor self-confidence, and I do have enough social skills to get laid every once in a while, then why do I need to fantasise about rape sometimes? It's actually true that it's about skipping the first part. You have to understand though, that I'm not obsessed with this fantasy. This is not the only thing I fantasise about. Sometimes I fantasise about being controlled, sometimes it's about being a child and coerced (and no, I was never abused as a child), sometimes it's about quite "normal" romantic sex. I have all sorts of fantasies (like storylines in my head) that I can pick up and imagine in different settings when I need that extra spice.
Also, I don't fantasise all the time. I'm not spending every free hour of the day fantasising about sex. I like to write my fantasies down and build entire stories around them, which I then use on those ocassions when I need to perform, as it were, and "the goods" or "the setting" aren't really doing anything for me. It sounds horrible, I know, but it works and there's no harm done. For instance, imagine I got a nice moment with a woman I like very much in every respect. We're about to do the nasty, but she makes perfectly clear she doesn't like it rough (which I do). You try to get it there anyway, but she won't. Then pick out one of those fantasies and think about it simultaneosly and, kazaam! You're the sexgod of the night. You can keep going for hours, just the way she likes it and it's fun for you too. Once you get closer to a woman you can start sharing fantasies, and she may start to realise that some of it is actually interesting to experiment with (such as domination fantasies).
I see no underlying problem with my fantasies. They're like entertainment to me. No different from violent movies or extremely detailed thriller books. It's a source of entertainment meant to arouse me sexually. And the mind is such a strange thing that in thought, I can get aroused by the craziest things sometimes.
But, having said all that, I wouldn't say that the fantasies are totally irrelevant to my current state of mind. They are, on the contrary, a direct reflection of it. Sometimes I'm stressed out from all the work I do. Those times I can fantasise about being controlled. Being told what to do (in my imagination) can work well for me. It's a way of falling back from all these decisions I make at work to being a mindless robot (or baby even) totally trusting the person in control. Other times I feel super; well-rested and clear in mind. Then I like to fantasise about me being a talented seducer walking around town laying down one perfect woman after the other in secluded alleys (that sort of thing).
It's all about an exciting source of erotic entertainment for me. Nothing else.
Originally posted by stockenWell, I was trying to keep the analysis away from you specifically because I don't know you and as mokko says, there are so many other factors to be taken into account.
Well, now. This last part (Mokko - Wheely) was certainly the most interesting and worthwhile in this whole thread. Well done, to both of you. 🙂
Let's take a look at me and my fantasies, shall we? I am a 33 year old single man, and I haven't had real sex in about six months. How long have I had my rape fantasy (in various versions)? About 5 to 6 years. Is ...[text shortened]... ng source of erotic entertainment for me. Nothing else.
The problem with this thread is that it is too general. This particular post spells out exactly what you mean and, I'd doubt I'd have even bothered to get involved if this had been the first post as I see no issue here at all.
The initial post allows people to conjur up all sorts of frightening images of what you are about, hence the over reaction you find.
Personally, until fairly recently, I had difficulty talking to women I found attractive even though I always seemed to get a fair amount of attention. I had to know them for a while before I could actually communicate in the same way as I did with women I didn't find attractive. Two things solved that. One was getting absolutely fed up with it and forcing myself to go and chat to the most attractive women I could find and the second one was becoming a single male foreigner in Norway!!!
So, if you ever get tired of your fantasies, become a foreigner somewhere, it's a blast!
Originally posted by WheelyI'm sure it is. 😉
So, if you ever get tired of your fantasies, become a foreigner somewhere, it's a blast!
But the fantasies are a perfect complement to the real life action I am getting. I'm just working so much now I have no time to spend trying to get intimate pleasure with a woman.
You see, it's been years since I've actually humped a stranger. I'm not really interested in one-nighters anymore, like I used to be. Nowadays, I want more involved sex. I won't get that unless I spend time with a woman I like (and where the feeling is mutual).
So my recent lack of sexual activity is mostly due to the fact I'm not really working on it. Well, I was going to pursue it last friday but the damn woman I had in mind didn't even show up for the party. 🙁 That's life for ya'. 😉
Originally posted by WheelyLOL....forums never make anything better, but they sure provide a pleasant distraction.
I truly hope you are not expecting the forums here to help make it a better one because THAT would be a dangerous fantasy!
Regards
Especially in this area of conversation. I've always been a bit curious as to the inner musings of the mind. I've read an embaressing number of books covering a wide range of discussion on sexuality and fantasy.
Sexual fantasy is never about sex. Sure, on the surface it can be taken as such, but as an expresion of inner turmoils and daily struggles they are a direct result of the minds need for resolution, a release from a given situation.
Originally posted by mokkoHi mokko, I hope today works out a better one for you. As I have already experienced much of the day already, I can assure you that it gets better towards the end.
LOL....forums never make anything better, but they sure provide a pleasant distraction.
Especially in this area of conversation. I've always been a bit curious as to the inner musings of the mind. I've read an embaressing number of books covering a wide range of discussion on sexuality and fantasy.
Sexual fantasy is never about sex. Sure, on the surfac ...[text shortened]... s they are a direct result of the minds need for resolution, a release from a given situation.
I too, have a fascination with what the hell goes on in our heads though generally rely on gut feeling and haven't consulted any books. I suspect that perhaps I should do though because your analysis of "the fantasy" was quite an eye opener for me and way more sensible than mine. I suspect this was because you seem to have approached it from a far more rational point than I did and I carelessly let my own emotion get in the way.
From what you are saying, it would seem that you see fantasy in a rather similar light to how we are often told dreams are supposed to work but on a more conscious level. I think this was what I have been trying to get at all along but haven't been able to articulate properly.
It is an interesting subject even if it didn't look like it was going to be 🙂
Originally posted by WheelyMorning Wheely, Day is looking better. Thanks.
Hi mokko, I hope today works out a better one for you. As I have already experienced much of the day already, I can assure you that it gets better towards the end.
I too, have a fascination with what the hell goes on in our heads though generally rely on gut feeling and haven't consulted any books. I suspect that perhaps I should do though because your ...[text shortened]... properly.
It is an interesting subject even if it didn't look like it was going to be 🙂
I do see dreams as the voice of the subconscience, and like fantasies, often have insight into our daily struggles as well as spititual awareness.
Fantasies are different in that they're a more conscience and raw form of awareness. Of course this thread has focused only on sexual fantasies. People obviously fantasize about many other things.