Originally posted by Bartswhat do your try to achieve with "choose one of these 2 answers and only these?" is this the case? do we only have these options? how about a third? punish the rapist so brutally that any future would be rapist would cower in fear every time he thought about rape.
I had a really long answer to your post all typed out already, but choose to throw it away,the discussion wasn't going anywhere the way it's going now. Instead I'd like to ask you this question.
Do you believe (a form of) segregation would be acceptable if it were the only way to solve the problem of sexual assaults on female soldiers ? If not, would you f ...[text shortened]... men got raped to avoid segregation in the army? In short, choose the lesser of the two evils.
oh wait, i don't have a third option, we live in a magical world where any options were spirited away and only 2 were left, let them get raped or send them away. hmm, i am guessing i would choose to send them away. and i won't look for another, better solution because i trust you there is none other.
EDIT: i didn't threw it away even if it deserved it. i chose to address every issue presented there hence my equally long post. you chose to ignore my points and instead present me with this idiotic scenario that accomplish what? that there is a world where given 2 damaging options you are not allowed to seek a third better one. mind you, this is not the case of "choose this second or the world explodes". this can be analyzed thoroughly, solutions can be found, and until then, we should punish those that deserve it, meaning the animal rapists. brutally.
Originally posted by ZahlanziWhat I tried to achieve by asking this question was to understand your position better. I actually think both our positions are remarkably similar and I think you should have seen that before if you weren't so hot-headed.
what do your try to achieve with "choose one of these 2 answers and only these?" is this the case? do we only have these options? how about a third? punish the rapist so brutally that any future would be rapist would cower in fear every time he thought about rape.
oh wait, i don't have a third option, we live in a magical world where any options were sp ...[text shortened]... until then, we should punish those that deserve it, meaning the animal rapists. brutally.
Now I'm going to try and give what I think are the main points of your position and what I had to say about them.
1) You think something should be done about these sexual assaults
- Should be pretty obvious that I agree
2) Those who commit these crimes should be punished
-"It's undefendable that those who harassed her weren't held accountable"
3) You think the way to counter these crimes is through education and persecution of those who commit them.
-"If education and a policy of prosecuting every single case of harassment/sexual assault/rape does the trick, so much the better."
This is me saying that it is a good first step, but doubting the effectiveness.
4) You think that if all else fails, segregation is acceptable
-"There are probably many other things that will help and that I find better then complete segregation, but I repeat,in my opinion it would be an acceptable LAST RESORT."
So basically our disagreement is that I am sceptical of the results of your proposed solution and that I am more outspoken on how far I'd go to counter these crimes. Please tell me if I'm wrong as to your positions though.
Originally posted by Bartspretty much, except i don't agree that one should ever come to 4
What I tried to achieve by asking this question was to understand your position better. I actually think both our positions are remarkably similar and I think you should have seen that before if you weren't so hot-headed.
Now I'm going to try and give what I think are the main points of your position and what I had to say about them.
1) You think somet ...[text shortened]... go to counter these crimes. Please tell me if I'm wrong as to your positions though.
when you accept 4 as a valid measure, even as a last resort you have failed. and you are going on a road that would turn society into a race between criminals who try to hurt people and the authorities that instead of changing the criminals they are affecting the potential victims.
i would never accept that my life change because the government is incapable of protecting me. i live in a society and in return for me paying taxes, society must protect me. not by forcing me to run, but by making the criminals run. if society cannot protect me, i will protect myself.
your 4 is unacceptable even as a last resort. it is a patch up job and ignores the real problems: the rapists are still free, not only that but they were given a free pass on which they will rely on for the next victim. the victim was already raped and now she is considered the problem and removed. the army has a rapist, an animal running around with a gun. and the issue will repeat itself at the next place that woman is relocated and in the place from which she left. all of this when an example had to be made of that animal(s). patch up jobs are never acceptable. sooner or later it will break down again and more people will get hurt.
perhaps Iam the only real soldier who has read this thread...i do not consider my self dumb nor do I consider my daughter dumb who also served in the US Army, We both used our VA benfits to educate ourselfs mine after I retired and she after college to pay back loans in a short time frame. I consider her chances to encounter the threat of rape as much in college from date rape as in the military on night manuvers. I think we can all agree the spotlight always shines on the military problems as it should, being in the spotlight brings out problems that can be addresed by all concered. However universities are famous for hiding their rape or sexual harrasment issues..bad for enrollment. What Iam trying to say is the concept that the military is somehow different then civilian life is a sophmoric view. Because I get up and don a uniform iam really no different then the man who dons a suit, just different job.
A man who will not stand for something will fall for anything, I as a solier do not start wars, i fight them. I fight to protect myself and my men its about our unit not the political issues that started it in the first place. Iam in awe of the men and women I served with for to lay your life on the line for another is the greatest love of all. I have had women commanders..women soldiers and they are no different then women office workers or women bosses all the trappings of our sexes play out in what ever arena you chose to play in. Honor in men and women is all that we have, if you lose yours it matters not where you are just that you realize its gone.
Originally posted by spike jonesthank you. that is the real soldier. not the sex crazed, weak animal that succumbs to stress that others point out. if such specimens do exist and find their way into the military they can hardly be called soldiers.
perhaps Iam the only real soldier who has read this thread...i do not consider my self dumb nor do I consider my daughter dumb who also served in the US Army, We both used our VA benfits to educate ourselfs mine after I retired and she after college to pay back loans in a short time frame. I consider her chances to encounter the threat of rape as much i ...[text shortened]... all that we have, if you lose yours it matters not where you are just that you realize its gone.