Debates
13 Apr 07
16 Apr 07
Originally posted by StarValleyWyi feel you. you are an optimist. you say that in just a few hundred years our need for government will be no more because we would have evolved so much that we could make decisions for ourselves(the right decisions) and we would no longer need someone else to tell us what to do.
This is an interesting idea. What you are postulating is a "non-civlized" encounter then.
I think that a truly self-aware person would have been forced to know his hereditary heritage and to have studied the history that shaped whatever passes for "civilization". If I read you correctly, you propose that we might still be at the point of "savaging th ...[text shortened]... ll have need to be "led". That will evaporate in another few hundered years. I think.
my opinion is that we as a civilisation we will always need some sort of government. the problem is that although we would be advanced and we won't need the government to tell us not to not to litter or not commit murder or theft or whatever, we would still need a central authority to decide for example "we have enough corn right now, we should take action to grow more livestock because we need more sausages." or "the human race will not colonize alpha centuri but sirius". a civilisation cannot exist without a central authority. (unless it is a network of AI's that think alike in wich case in can be argued that the network itself is the central authority)
perhaps you should give an example to convince us how our need to be led can disappear and how can we exist as a species then
16 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Jay JoosLOL. Then I guess we would have to define "believe". I have absolutely no idea if there is life outside of earth, never mind "sentient life".
As far as i can remember they believe in Aliens...
And being a good atheist, it seems prudent to just wait for information.
Being a gambler at heart though, I want there to be life out there. That fits my dreams far better for some reason. I would like to think that there will be SOME magnet strong enough to draw our attention away from ourselves long enough for us to develop our full potential as intelligent beings. It is my fear that as long as we remain child-like -- lazing about in the tender arms of mother earth... we will never mature.
16 Apr 07
Originally posted by StarValleyWyThere must be life elsewhere...we would be a little naive to think we are the only ones...... i personally dont believe in Aliens...i think the life could be living tissue as such..... i like your dream but sadly it seems just a dream !!!
LOL. Then I guess we would have to define "believe". I have absolutely no idea if there is life outside of earth, never mind "sentient life".
And being a good atheist, it seems prudent to just wait for information.
Being a gambler at heart though, I want there to be life out there. That fits my dreams far better for some reason. I would like to ...[text shortened]... main child-like -- lazing about in the tender arms of mother earth... we will never mature.
16 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by ZahlanziThat is a worthy challenge.
perhaps you should give an example to convince us how our need to be led can disappear and how can we exist as a species then
Why do we insist on having leaders? If I am to answer your challenge, I must first put forth my notions then a worthy replacement mechanism then reasons why it can happen in the alternative.
We have leaders because the first rule of evolution seems to be captured in the following sentence first uttered by our cave-dwelling ancestors. "How can I get this damn carcass carved? I'm tired and need a little nap. Hmmm... I wonder what would happen if I whacked off a sharp piece of that rock over there... Hmmm."
Laziness drives all humans. So we invent ways to ease our burden. Leaders allow us to take a lot of naps without having to be on alert for danger. Need protection? Hire a mayor who will hire armed men to protect you. Need protection? Hire a senator who will pass laws so that you can hire his cousin to protect you. Need protection? Elect a Prime Minister and he will form an army to protect you.
If you were willing to join in defense of your neighbors, you would have less need of the Mayor. If you were willing to learn the law and insist on the law, you wouldn't need lawyers. If you were willing to be a soldier when attacked, you would have no need of an army.
But alas... our brutish nature has given rise to the nation state for good reason. And our sluggish nature has given rise to the city state for good reason. And lastly, our fearful nature has us all by the throat.
So the mechanism I would suggest to replace needing a "leader" would be a stiff dose of courage. If you are constantly afraid, you have already lost your freedom. On the other hand, If you have fought the bully and lost... you know that there is no danger in bullys. There might be loss of life, but that isn't too frightening if you have courage.
What? You want to live forever? LOL
I don't really think we can do away with our tribal/pack way of doing things... YET. I also think that if we continue to progress and learn to take personal responsibility, the need for being "led" will go away. Why do I feel this? Because I go to my neighborhood caucus meetings and give everybody hell over their stupid fears taking away my rights! I am still in the process, but I see it changing, even in my life time.
One way to not need a leader is to make all of your life decisions based on what you CAN do, not what the government will not allow you to do or what they won't give you. But that is just rhetoric, isn't it.
I don't know. You offer an interesting challenge. I really can't give you an example of how to do away with leaders. I have a feeling that it is possible, because I know I need none. That isn't a winning argument though. I conceed. Dang it.