28 Dec 12
Originally posted by KazetNagorraMarginal rates at over 90% didn't mean people paid that much. When rates were higher, shelters were more prevalent.
The US had a top rate of over 75% during a significant part of the 20th Century. Under Eisenhower it was over 90%. 39% is historically quite a low percentage. Prior to the Bush tax cuts, you have to go all the way back to Coolidge to get a top rate lower than 39%.
Not all of Europe is in "dire financial trouble" - in fact state finances in e.g. Germa ...[text shortened]... dly partially because of the eurozone crisis and the lower yields on bonds that have resulted.
40% is still a marginal rate, but total taxation isn't just federal, or just income tax. And there are far fewer shelters, deductions or loopholes whatever you want to call them.
All taxpaying people try to minimize their legal taxation.
Originally posted by PsychoPawnI am Irish on my mother's side and French on my father's side.
No, but he was quoted in 2005:
"Discussing his drinking habits in 2005, he said: ‘When I’m stressed, I still drink five or six bottles of wine a day. "
Who drinks five to six bottles a day and isn't a drunkard? ...even just when they are stressed.
He also said:
"‘When I’m relaxed, three or four, but I’m trying to cut down. You think alcoho He was one of the few good points in The Man in the Iron Mask as far as I am concerned.
What you have to understand is that wine is an everyday drink in France
just like coffee is to you in Canada and America.
While I agree that 5-6 bottles a day would be excessive,
The majority of French drink wine with their meals and it is
a natural part of the culture. Even offspring when they are old
enough partake of a glass of wine with their meal.
The French do not drink to get drunk and fall down like the Irish and the
English did in years gone by. This sort of culture is starting to change I
am happy to say in Ireland and in Britain.
Francois Hollande was elected for two main reasons.
1. The people did not like Sarkosy and were glad to see the back of him.
By the way, Sarkosy's background was Hungarian.
2. Hollande is from the left side of politics and the people looked to him
to aid them in these recessionary tough times.
This tax is one way that he thinks will help France become a strong economy
again. It is a brave decision as it may very well mean a flight of capital.
Depardieu is not the first to react to this tax and he probably won't be the last.
In conclusion, is it right for Hollande to do this?
Only time will tell. The politicians on the left here in Ireland are screaming
to the Government to introduce a wealth tax. But they are afraid to introduce
one. Instead they hammer the poor and the vulnerable, while they take home
hundreds of thousands per annum.
Our Taoiseach ( Prime Minister ) is on a staggering 200,000 Euro per year.
The Tainaiste, ( Deputy Prime Minister ) is on 180,000 per year.
Members of parliament 110,000 per year. 160,000 if you get made a Minister
in some department.
All this plus expenses. It's an absolute disgrace.
In the last budget they cut the home carers allowance.
Some people have no money left after they pay their bills.
28 Dec 12
Originally posted by johnnylongwoodyI know wine is more of an every day drink in France. A few bottles per day is a bit much though.
I am Irish on my mother's side and French on my father's side.
What you have to understand is that wine is an everyday drink in France
just like coffee is to you in Canada and America.
While I agree that 5-6 bottles a day would be excessive,
The majority of French drink wine with their meals and it is
a natural part of the culture. Even of ...[text shortened]... ut the home carers allowance.
Some people have no money left after they pay their bills.
In that same article he mentioned that he was getting addicted to it.
As for taxes, I think the number and how the rates increase as income increases really depends on the country. There will be flight based on taxes being raised, but I think they should be aware of that, but not necessarily too concerned depending on the rates.
28 Dec 12
Originally posted by normbenignThey still paid a lot more than today as this illustrative graph shows:
Marginal rates at over 90% didn't mean people paid that much. When rates were higher, shelters were more prevalent.
40% is still a marginal rate, but total taxation isn't just federal, or just income tax. And there are far fewer shelters, deductions or loopholes whatever you want to call them.
All taxpaying people try to minimize their legal taxation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Effective_tax_rates,_US_high-income.png
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29 Dec 12
"
Once the principle is established that government has an unlimited right to confiscate one person's earning for the benefit of another, there are no moral restraints. "
Where is the morality when corporate CEOs and managers pay their employees a nominal wages while they vote outrageous compensation pakages and golden parachutes for themselves?
ReplyReply & Quote
29 Dec 12
Originally posted by kbear1kAs citizens and consumers we have several effective and easy ways to deal with perceived wrongdoing by employees of any business.
"
Once the principle is established that government has an unlimited right to confiscate one person's earning for the benefit of another, there are no moral restraints. "
Where is the morality when corporate CEOs and managers pay their employees a nominal wages while they vote outrageous compensation pakages and golden parachutes for themselves?
ReplyReply & Quote
1. Call the cops
2. Don't buy their products
3. Don't work for them
That's a start. Do we have similar leverage when dealing with government, especially when popular support is to legalize theft from one group to pay another.
29 Dec 12
Originally posted by KazetNagorraThe problem is that even attempting to measure "real" taxation over decades is extremely complex. Inflated currency. Differing rates and loopholes. Creep of marginal rates due to inflated earnings. Changes in State and local taxation, usually upwards. Switching of taxation to sin taxes and excises. Massive increases on FICA tax base, with no commensurate increase in benefits.
They still paid a lot more than today as this illustrative graph shows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Effective_tax_rates,_US_high-income.png
You can demagogue either side with just a little effort. Governments the world over attempt to portray themselves as selfless benefactors to the poor, and givers to all, except the uber wealthy, disguising the fact that there just aren't enough of those wealthy to pay for all the gifts. They in effect bribe us with our own money.
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29 Dec 12
Originally posted by normbenignRight, that will work. If you believe that you are very naive.
As citizens and consumers we have several effective and easy ways to deal with perceived wrongdoing by employees of any business.
1. Call the cops
2. Don't buy their products
3. Don't work for them
That's a start. Do we have similar leverage when dealing with government, especially when popular support is to legalize theft from one group to pay another.
29 Dec 12
Originally posted by sh76He's not the first. Johnny Hallyday changed his residence to Switzerland in 2006 for the same reason.
[quote]Gerard Depardieu, one of France's most iconic and beloved film stars, is now at the center of a national uproar over French taxes and patriotism.
Depardieu, who has been in around 200 films, says he's moving to Belgium to avoid paying a new 75 percent tax on the superwealthy. The move has divided the country and has focused attention on the Socialist ...[text shortened]... - Judge Learned Hand, Gregory v. Helvering, 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934)
29 Dec 12
Originally posted by normbenignThe graph shows what percentage of total income people actually paid. So that would include loopholes and so on and is not affected by inflation.
The problem is that even attempting to measure "real" taxation over decades is extremely complex. Inflated currency. Differing rates and loopholes. Creep of marginal rates due to inflated earnings. Changes in State and local taxation, usually upwards. Switching of taxation to sin taxes and excises. Massive increases on FICA tax base, with no commensurate ...[text shortened]... enough of those wealthy to pay for all the gifts. They in effect bribe us with our own money.
Why is it so hard for you to accept that wealthy people pay a lot less taxes than they used to? It may be a good or a bad thing depending on your point of view but the facts are clear as day.
30 Dec 12
Originally posted by KazetNagorrahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Effective_tax_rates,_US_high-income.png
The graph shows what percentage of total income people actually paid. So that would include loopholes and so on and is not affected by inflation.
Why is it so hard for you to accept that wealthy people pay a lot less taxes than they used to? It may be a good or a bad thing depending on your point of view but the facts are clear as day.
The graph shows average tax rates, not actual taxes paid in inflation adjusted dollars. As I previously pointed out the data is incomplete.
I am not rich, probably not even bourgeois, but I don't see that it is any of my business what others earn. It is not relevant to my well being. Money confiscated and wasted by government doesn't make me any better off.
I prefer that I have a choice in what I pay for. In the market I have that choice. When government spends the money of rich and poor alike, none of us have choices.