Happy Mother's day

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Another non sequitur from the obnoxious and arrogant Duchess64.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

One has to admit that one has a problem (e.g. alcoholism) before one can begin to solve it,

You might consider that advise yourself. Your writing is stilted, and sometimes almost unreadable, despite your claims of higher education. One wonders, why anyone in a multinational/multilingual forum would make an issue of who or whom anyway.

Originally posted by normbenign
Why is the answer to a simple question so painful for you?

You rave on, but will not admit to the simple truth that undermines your entire position.

"Why is the answer to a simple question so painful for you?"
painful? hardly. tiring? kinda.
this would be the third time i ask you to explain what use is this answer to you in the context of our discussion. i started the thread to show how amerika is member of a select club of TWO (the other being papua new guinea) countries that does not offer paid maternity leave. in any amount. there are poor african countries that offer at least a freakin week.

you people have managed to hijack the thread and i am now finding myself arguing for the merits of social security and minimum wage. not the way, good or bad, those are implemented, but how we shouldn't have them at all. then wajoma has a brain fart and asks a stupid question with no context whatsoever so we could spend another dozen of posts going back and forth on my answer to that question.

so no, i will not answer that question until you provide context.

"You rave on"
claim without proof. don't care

"but will not admit to the simple truth that undermines your entire position"
what simple truth. how could i have missed the simple truth that undermines my entire position. so, what is it.

Originally posted by normbenign
[b]i was being sarcastic to prove a point.

It didn't work.

Try arguing a point that someone is disputing.

"Minimum wage laws limit the number of low skill jobs harming the very people they are supposed to help."
prove it

Do you intentionally seek out places where you can pay higher prices for the same things? If any worker is not ...[text shortened]... e than his pay, his work is in jeopardy. If you've never made a payroll, you wouldn't know this.[/b]

"It didn't work."
that's, like, your opinion, man.

"Try arguing a point that someone is disputing. "
i did. in the data i provided. you ignored that and went for the meaningless sarcastic remark after that which had no meaning. because it was freakin sarcastic.

"Minimum wage laws limit the number of low skill jobs harming the very people they are supposed to help."
oh for fuk's sake. do you honestly believe walmart is a multi-billion dollar corporation because it saves 5 dollars an hour for its domestic employees? that it can't afford to pay americans 12/hour instead of 7.25? do you think walmart will go bankrupt if it pays more minimum wage?

do you honestly think that in the case of walmart, the worker is paid according to what he produces? because he should be paid thousands of dollars then

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you don't think it somewhat diminishes one's dignity being forced to go to work on monday after pushing a human being out of their body on sunday?

No one forces you to go to work. It is your expectation that one should get paid without going to work.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
do you honestly believe walmart is a multi-billion dollar corporation because it saves 5 dollars an hour for its domestic employees? that it can't afford to pay americans 12/hour instead of 7.25? do you think walmart will go bankrupt if it pays more minimum wage?

Walmart won't go bankrupt, but countless small restaurants and small businesses will hire fewer people or people for fewer hours if the minimum wage is higher.

I do think that some level of minimum wage is a good idea, but like everything else, it's a trade-off. I'm unimpressed by arguments that the minimum wage is necessary to give people higher wages in a vacuum. Show me that the minimum wage is still under the point that's optimal for the economy as a whole and I'll support raising it. But at some point (and I don't know precisely where that point is), raising it costs more in terms of lost jobs than it helps in terms of higher wages.

Originally posted by quackquack
No one forces you to go to work. It is your expectation that one should get paid without going to work.

yes, people on social security are leechers/moochers and lazy. never heard that one before.

Originally posted by sh76
Walmart won't go bankrupt, but countless small restaurants and small businesses will hire fewer people or people for fewer hours if the minimum wage is higher.

I do think that some level of minimum wage is a good idea, but like everything else, it's a trade-off. I'm unimpressed by arguments that the minimum wage is necessary to give people higher wages in a ...[text shortened]... t point is), raising it costs more in terms of lost jobs than it helps in terms of higher wages.

"Walmart won't go bankrupt, but countless small restaurants and small businesses will hire fewer people or people for fewer hours if the minimum wage is higher."
so you, as a country, prefer to
- not give tax breaks to the small businesses who need them to grow and stay in business
- give tax breaks to the super rich so they can make more profit
- keep small business afloat by hurting the people who make the least amount of money.

the super rich get even richer.
small businesses barely stay afloat.
minimum wage workers barely stay alive.


here is a radical thought: you increase the minimum wage AND you help the small businesses (the only ones truly impacted negatively by this measure) by other means rather than squeezing the poorest for money.


"Show me that the minimum wage is still under the point that's optimal for the economy as a whole and I'll support raising it"
7.25 *8 = 58 /day
58*5 = 290 /week
290*53= 15370/year

tell me, do you think this is a reasonable amount of money? to pay bills, drive a car(not two), send a single child to college? child grows up, parents simply cannot afford to keep in college, child goes to mickyD's for minimum wage and starts the cycle again.

yes, not everyone can be rich.
some people have to be poor, it's sad but it's true. in a good society however there should be at least the hope to get out of poverty.


"But at some point (and I don't know precisely where that point is), raising it costs more in terms of lost jobs than it helps in terms of higher wages."
that's how you keep an economy flowing? by having a workforce working for low salaries?

"(and I don't know precisely where that point is)"
germany, Uk, Netherlands seems to know. it is higher than yours.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
yes, people on social security are leechers/moochers and lazy. never heard that one before.

I did not say anything about Social Security but if you need to misrepresent my post in order to support your views than feel free to continually misquote me.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"Walmart won't go bankrupt, but countless small restaurants and small businesses will hire fewer people or people for fewer hours if the minimum wage is higher."
so you, as a country, prefer to
- not give tax breaks to the small businesses who need them to grow and stay in business
- give tax breaks to the super rich so they can make more profit
- keep ...[text shortened]... recisely where that point is)"
germany, Uk, Netherlands seems to know. it is higher than yours.

Maybe not every low skill job commands a salary to pay for everything a family may desire.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"Walmart won't go bankrupt, but countless small restaurants and small businesses will hire fewer people or people for fewer hours if the minimum wage is higher."
so you, as a country, prefer to
- not give tax breaks to the small businesses who need them to grow and stay in business
- give tax breaks to the super rich so they can make more profit
- keep ...[text shortened]... recisely where that point is)"
germany, Uk, Netherlands seems to know. it is higher than yours.

What's with you and these bizarre false dichotomies?

Anyway, I don't agree with the proposition that every job should be able to support a family of 4. Minimum wage jobs are not designed necessarily for the family's sole breadwinner. They're designed for young people, single people, second incomes, etc.

Just because a job doesn't produce enough to support a family of 4 in a vacuum doesn't mean we should legislate it out of existence.


====germany, Uk, Netherlands seems to know. it is higher than yours====

The argument that someone else does it and therefore it's correct is unimpressive in the extreme. I want to know whether it's a good idea, not whether people do it. You don't see me arguing that the US doesn't do it and therefore it's wrong to do. I don't by "X does it" as a reason that I should do it.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"Why is the answer to a simple question so painful for you?"
painful? hardly. tiring? kinda.
this would be the third time i ask you to explain what use is this answer to you in the context of our discussion. i started the thread to show how amerika is member of a select club of TWO (the other being papua new guinea) countries that does not offer paid mate ...[text shortened]... th. how could i have missed the simple truth that undermines my entire position. so, what is it.

Answering that question would undermine your entire argument. Sometimes simple facts are important.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"It didn't work."
that's, like, your opinion, man.

"Try arguing a point that someone is disputing. "
i did. in the data i provided. you ignored that and went for the meaningless sarcastic remark after that which had no meaning. because it was freakin sarcastic.

"Minimum wage laws limit the number of low skill jobs harming the very people they are s ...[text shortened]... orker is paid according to what he produces? because he should be paid thousands of dollars then

oh for fuk's sake. do you honestly believe walmart is a multi-billion dollar corporation because it saves 5 dollars an hour for its domestic employees?

Could you possibly keep the foul language to yourself? You know absolutely nothing about Walmart's wage scales. Permit me to enlighten you. Walmart hires everything from boys to push carts back to the store, to CPAs, Lawyers, and Truck drivers. Their pay scales are above average at every job description. And no they can't just raise everyone's wages by $5 per hour. Wages must reflect the value of the work performed.

If they raised the wages of high school boys who push carts back into the store by $5 per hour, my guess is that they would eliminate the job, for example by not allowing the carts out into the parking lot at all. Most inner city markets already keep the carts inside the store and a small area outside the exit.

I did that job, for Finast markets in Boston in my senior year of high school, for $1.10 and hour.