14 Jul 23
1 edit
@vivify saidThe MAGA shooters like Cruz (Parkland shooter) often think they are heroes of society and that they’ll get away with it because Donald Trump and other conservatives will cover for him. He was also very psychologically traumatized and probably not thinking rationally. I think he was also suicidal and wouldn’t mind being killed by cops.
I understand those kind of crimes but it doesn't explain the senseless killings like the Parkland shooter, the Chicago parade shooter, Asian spa shooter, the Buffalo Target shooter, etc.
So many crimes are committed for no other reason other than because the perpetrator can. Such people seem to have no fear of prison.
14 Jul 23
2 edits
The Asian spa shooter again was a conservative sex addict who was lashing out at whores and temptresses who were exposing people to the sin of lust. What is prison compared to eternal damnation? And they were just ‘hoors’ as Ralphie Cifaretto might put it so maybe he’d get away with it or die by cop and end his life of sin while being a hero.
14 Jul 23
5 edits
@AThousandYoung
It seems you're saying that criminals have legitimate human frailties and circumstances that go beyond just someone being "evil", which the penal system should account for that.
A quite valid point.
15 Jul 23
@vivify saidHow you treat prisoners is a reflection of and on your society.
One of the reasons for prison, in addition to punishment and rehabilitation, is as a deterrent for crime.
The U.S. has very high crime rates, as opposed to Singapore, which has one of the world's lowest crime rates. Singapore is also infamous for their strict punishment of crime:
https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1915352_1915354_1915337,0 ...[text shortened]... ime, how harsh should punishments be? How do we find a balance between punishment and human rights?
Most of Western Europe has lower crime than the US, and our prison systems are not harsh at all.
There is no link between harsher prison systems and less crime.
I disagree with forced labour. That just takes away jobs from normal people, and creates a free work force for people to exploit.
Prison, I don’t think, is the best kind of punishment, not the best place to re-educate and rehabilitate.
It’s a place you stick people who are a danger to society. And it’s society which deems them that danger. Since it’s a society’s choice, I would prefer treating the imprisoned with a certain degree of empathy.
15 Jul 23
1 edit
@vivify saidare you suggesting american prisons are not hellish enough?
One of the reasons for prison, in addition to punishment and rehabilitation, is as a deterrent for crime.
The U.S. has very high crime rates, as opposed to Singapore, which has one of the world's lowest crime rates. Singapore is also infamous for their strict punishment of crime:
https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1915352_1915354_1915337,0 ...[text shortened]... ime, how harsh should punishments be? How do we find a balance between punishment and human rights?
"But Singapore's low crime does show that people are genuinely afraid of prison (though it's not just that, law enforcement is also very strict). "
How real are crime stats in a country that has corporeal punishments. I wouldn't trust crime rates in North Korea or Saudi Arabia. I am not saying that's the case but it is an explanation. Another explanation could be that it's just correlation not causation.
Just read that sex trafficking is a major problem and so is scamming. Sure, you made draconian punishments and got rid of petty crime, at what cost. The crimes that pay will still be worth the risk for some individuals and the rest of the population lives in fear.
"If prison should also act as a deterrent for crime, how harsh should punishments be? "
It shouldn't and it doesn't
"How do we find a balance between punishment and human rights?"
why is punishment even in the consideration?
We shouldn't imprison people as a punishment we should imprison them because they are unfit for society, that they are a danger to us. With that in mind, the goal should always be to reintegrate that person back into society
15 Jul 23
@vivify saidnone.
https://irblaw.com.sg/learning-centre/armed-robberies-in-singapore/#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20the%20sentence%20for,12)%20strokes%20of%20the%20cane.
The punishment for robbery in Singapore can be up to 14 years and twelve strikes with a cane.
What would you suggest the harshest possible punishment (within moral grounds) should be for an average, run-of-the-mill robbery?
And any thoughts whether "hard labor" should be reintroduced into U.S. prisons?
Why is it a factor?
The punishment is the loss of freedom itself. Why do you insist on framing the issue as if punishment is a requirement and the goal?
"And any thoughts whether "hard labor" should be reintroduced into U.S. prisons?"
Creating a cheap work force that would incentivize sending people to prison AND hurt companies not using an effectively slave labour? What are my thoughts on that?
Oh sorry, I get ahead of myself, you probably just want to have inmates build character through work instead of just sitting there. You intended to pay them full, competitive wages, right?
@shavixmir saidWe're on a similar plane on this topic. Prison is about separating people who can not respect the right of others to their property, to their life - free from force, threats of force and fraud from those that can respect those rights.
How you treat prisoners is a reflection of and on your society.
Most of Western Europe has lower crime than the US, and our prison systems are not harsh at all.
There is no link between harsher prison systems and less crime.
I disagree with forced labour. That just takes away jobs from normal people, and creates a free work force for people to exploit.
Prison, I d ...[text shortened]... ce it’s a society’s choice, I would prefer treating the imprisoned with a certain degree of empathy.
It's not about revenge, it's not to hurt and torture them. For some people it's not a deterrent, for any normal person losing their freedom is a very big deterrent, it is what makes life worth living.
US prisoners are not subject to forced labour, it's a choice. It is a tricky area with the possibility of abuse of prison labour but productive effort can be rewarding and something that some prisoners have not experienced before, there must be some way of maintaining it in a way that does not take work from private enterprise.
Just saw zahlooney 'sarky boy' bamboozles reply. Yes, productive effort is character building, to have purpose each day is essential to building character, if the goal is to rehabilitate this is the best tool in the box. A directionless, purposeless, motiveless life is an immoral life.