If Trump is as bad as the Democrats say he is...

@athousandyoung said
Is that how you stopped Clinton?

Clever. I must admit I didn't see that coming.

@techsouth said
Do you know what "hypothetical" means?

It sounds like you think Trump was very very bad.

Let me see if I understand what you believe.

1. Trump was very very bad as president and is a clear and present danger to Democracy itself.
2. None of the 81 million Biden voters would have even considered cheating.
3. All of the 74 million Trump voters would cheat if given ...[text shortened]... have occurred that would have escaped our attempts to investigate so far.

Does that sum it up?

Yes everyone knows republicans cheat and lie whilst democrats are all fair minded reasonable people.
You don’t like the Biden win so you’ll come out with whatever BS you can think off to cast doubt on it without one shred of actual evidence.
Does that sum it up?
Yes I know exactly what a hypothetical is but if used as a debating tool some relevance and internal logic would be nice.
Here’s another one:- what if you believed only one man could save your beloved nation from destruction by enemies within and out with what wouldn’t you do to ensure he obtained the presidency and kept it? Wouldn’t you tell any lie or rig any election by ensuring that as few of the internal enemies were able to cast a vote as possible?

@techsouth said
If Trump is as bad as the Democrats say he is, would you help cheat in an election to prevent him from being reelected? Or, would you turn a blind eye while someone else cheated? This is all assuming you could get away with it.

If not, why not?

If Trump was really as bad as we're being told and I believed it, I'd at least turn a blind eye while someone else cheated. ...[text shortened]... dn't happen in 2020. We've been told our elections are the most secure ever and totally hack proof.

Election fraud is useless against someone known for election fraud (pressuring officials to change election results and spreading election lies, despite judges from his own party dismissing his elections lies). The GOP has no qualms against using election fraud to win, like red states using fake electors.

Committing election fraud would only result in a stalemate with both sides yelling at the other for cheating. That's why remaining ethical is not optional.

@techsouth said
Behind a paywall, but you can at least see the title. This is a mainstream newspaper.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/09/13/dont-compare-donald-trump-to-adolf-hitler-it-belittles-hitler/

40 to 50 million died in WW2.

If Trump was really that bad, you're saying you would NOT even consider turning a blind eye if someone cheated?

Are you confident that all 81 million Biden supporters would do the same?

I guess you need to clarify what you refer to with "if trump was really that bad".

You mean Hitler bad you need to say that. But I think his voter fraud claims are really really bad lies.

Without proof he preemptively claimed a fraudulent rigged election. After the election, he personally and actively spread nonsense about what fraud occurred. He continues to do this today.

I think that specific thing trump did and is doing is bad. But combatting that specific thing with my own version of election fraud? No I wouldn't do that.

@vivify said
Election fraud is useless against someone known for election fraud (pressuring officials to change election results and spreading election lies, despite judges from his own party dismissing his elections lies). And his own has no qualms against using election fraud to win, like red states using fake electors.

Committing election fraud would only result in a stalemate with both sides yelling at the other for cheating. That's why remaining ethical is not optional.

All interesting opinions.

And I understand why you would choose to not answer the question. None of us answer all questions on these forums including me.

@mott-the-hoople said
sadly that is gone…something major has to happen

many people usurped power to change election laws during the last election, nothing has been done about it.

…something major has to happen


If you're talking about riots in the streets or a replay of January 6th, it's not going to happen. Most people don't support this. All we'll see is a few proud boys throwing rocks before being scooped up by police and hauled away to jail. Your side has too many armchair generals (like you) who talk so tough but want someone else to do the heavy lifting. Just like your cowardly, draft dodging, obese poster boy at Mar-a-Lago.

@wildgrass said
I guess you need to clarify what you refer to with "if trump was really that bad".

You mean Hitler bad you need to say that. But I think his voter fraud claims are really really bad lies.

Without proof he preemptively claimed a fraudulent rigged election. After the election, he personally and actively spread nonsense about what fraud occurred. He continues to do this ...[text shortened]... ad. But combatting that specific thing with my own version of election fraud? No I wouldn't do that.

It was apparent that Democrats had determined that Trump must be defeated, and this was true long before 2020 election fraud was brought up.

I hate to be quick to bring Hitler into it, but I got the impression that many Democrats believe that 2017 USA was kind of like 1934 Germany. Whatever the case, I am looking for answers based on the consensus of Democrats of how bad Trump was. Since I never saw him as that bad, I am not the one to judge exactly how bad that is. But I know it was at least "epic" bad.

As far as voter fraud accusations go, is that worse than claiming Russian Collusion for the 2016 election? The former has been purged from most online platforms. That latter continues to be spread.

@kevcvs57 said
Yes everyone knows republicans cheat and lie whilst democrats are all fair minded reasonable people.
You don’t like the Biden win so you’ll come out with whatever BS you can think off to cast doubt on it without one shred of actual evidence.
Does that sum it up?
Yes I know exactly what a hypothetical is but if used as a debating tool some relevance and internal logic wou ...[text shortened]... g any election by ensuring that as few of the internal enemies were able to cast a vote as possible?

Yes everyone knows republicans cheat and lie whilst democrats are all fair minded reasonable people.

Funny, most Republicans I know don't know that.

You don’t like the Biden win so you’ll come out with whatever BS you can think off to cast doubt on it without one shred of actual evidence.

I have added many posts concerning cognitive blind spots and the need to wrestle with my own. While I think you greatly overstate, I will admit that my natural inclination would be to look harder for Democrat cheating than Republican cheating. Being aware of that in myself, I try hard to avoid jumping to conclusions or latching on to whatever the latest accusation is so quickly. I recall after the 2020 election watching all the accusations of cheating and realizing that even of something is there, I should expect that most of the accusations will be total crap. In some cases, even without having been there nor having the ability to see any first hand evidence, I could see the specific accusation was total crap (e.g. the pens in Arizona and the bleed through).

But as you stated it come out with whatever BS you can think off to cast doubt on it without one shred of actual evidence. No. I wouldn't do anything close to that nor do I know anyone who would. Although I don't doubt there exist some that would.

What about you. Do you have any biases in politics or are you 100% objective in all things?

@mchill said
…something major has to happen


If you're talking about riots in the streets or a replay of January 6th, it's not going to happen. Most people don't support this. All we'll see is a few proud boys throwing rocks before being scooped up by police and hauled away to jail. Your side has too many armchair generals (like you) who talk so tough but want someone else to do the heavy lifting. Just like your cowardly, draft dodging, obese poster boy at Mar-a-Lago.

Are we prone to violence or are we arm-chair quarterbacks? Which is it?

It seems clear there is a lot of inclination to violence among Democrats. How many were killed during the BLM riots?

@techsouth said
It was apparent that Democrats had determined that Trump must be defeated, and this was true long before 2020 election fraud was brought up.

I hate to be quick to bring Hitler into it, but I got the impression that many Democrats believe that 2017 USA was kind of like 1934 Germany. Whatever the case, I am looking for answers based on the consensus of Democrats of how ba ...[text shortened]... ection? The former has been purged from most online platforms. That latter continues to be spread.

Trump is bad because his rhetoric and actions undermine the free and fair process of electing our own leaders.

Is that a statement you can agree with?

@wildgrass said
Trump is bad because his rhetoric and actions undermine the free and fair process of electing our own leaders.

Is that a statement you can agree with?

I did a google search and constrained the dates to 1/1/2020 through 3/31/2020.

I searched on the phrase "trump suggest election is unfair" without quotes. I did not find anything like what you're saying.

My memory might be faulty, but I am pretty sure the comparisons to Germany in the 1930s came long before 2020 even.

But what do you think? Would it be fair to say that the ONLY major problem Democrats had with Trump was based on the belief he would undermine election integrity? Did they think he was an okay president other than that? To me, that seems like something that didn't come much into play until late 2020.

@techsouth said
All interesting opinions.

And I understand why you would choose to not answer the question.

"Remaining ethical is not optional".

That is the answer. No, I would not cheat, for the reasons mentioned above.

@jimm619 said
Your boy was claiming, 'rigged,' before the
first vote was cast. He said OBAMA's election was rigged.
Turn a blind eye, you say? This would be a conspiracy involving
hundreds of thousands of people..............
If you look at these claims objectively, as any thinking person should,
you would notice that there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of a rigged election.
The only person who perpetuates this falsehood is TRUMP HIMSELF.

And Kari Lake.

@techsouth said
Are we prone to violence or are we arm-chair quarterbacks? Which is it?

It seems clear there is a lot of inclination to violence among Democrats. How many were killed during the BLM riots?

You mean by the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers and the Three Percenters?

Unknown because the white cops covered that up.

@techsouth said
As far as voter fraud accusations go, is that worse than claiming Russian Collusion for the 2016 election? The former has been purged from most online platforms. That latter continues to be spread.

Lies disappear, while it is a lot harder to prove that something true is untrue.

Too many people know about Jared's meetings with the Russians. And too many people saw Trump kiss Putin's ass in Helsinki.