Intellectual Property

Originally posted by FMF
You seem to be so intent on being snide you failed to address any of the points Zahlandi made. Nor did you address the original questions raised in this thread. In fact, it's not clear why you posted at all.

Nobody appears to be having any trouble understanding anything here, so your haughty "is it too abstract for you?" tone is uncalled for. Some people igno ief! You're a thief!' doesn't strike me as being a very interesting contribution at all.

If your intent was for this thread to be "about what punishment might be appropriate for people who download music", you missed the mark. It starts off with an admission of copyright infringement, feigned remorse and continues much like a thirteen year old bragging to his friends about his shoplifting in a desperate attempt for attention. I took the questions on the original post to be rhetorical. Which were you seriously seeking to be addressed?

Your second post continued with bragging, a rationalization, then another rhetorical question. I actually answered that one perhaps to your dismay.

Despite your protests to the contrary, it's pretty evident that there are those, including you, who are having trouble with the concept of rights being given for intellectual property. Intellectual property has value. When you buy a CD, you're not buying a disc of plastic so much as you are buying a form of expression. The manner of distribution is largely irrelevant. An MP3 copy essentially contains all the "value" that is being protected. An understanding of this concept makes questions such as "if someone decides to put a tax on air and asks you to pay it, you won't be very eager will you?" pointless. "Air" is not intellectual property, nor is it afforded copyright protection.

Just because you and others say you refuse to recognize intellectual property rights is immaterial. It's as immaterial as a shoplifter saying he refuses to recognize physical property rights. As I've been pointing out, you're basically saying that you refuse to recognize the rights of others, which is what all criminals do.

Perhaps it's time for you outgrow having the mindset of a thirteen year old.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Perhaps it's time for you outgrow having the mindset of a thirteen year old.

You seem to be so intent on being snide you failed to address any of the points anyone has made so far. And you still haven't addressed the original questions raised in this thread. As I said before, it's quite clear that nobody is having any trouble understanding anything here, so your ludicrously smug condescending tone is uncalled for. You strike me as someone who perhaps has self-esteem issues and you are letting off self-edifying steam on the net. Condemn theft by all means. But your snide tone lets you down.

Being so staunch in your views, your thoughts on the following would perhaps be interesting:

If I were to turn myself in, to whom should I go to do so?

What exactly would I be charged with?

Would/should I be fined or gaoled?

What would/should be the punishment for:

* 1 album, worth $15
* 100 albums
* A collection of more than 10,000 albums?

Should I ask for all the cassettes I made of friends' LPs in the 1970s and 1980s to be taken into consideration when I am charged?

Might it be possible to make some sort of plea bargain by detailing who I'd got the music from?

Would the artists whose music I was collecting benefit directly from my prosecution e.g. be compensated in any way?

What effect would my conviction have on my life once I'd paid my debt to society? (e.g. teachers in the UK cannot have criminal convictions; as a teacher [for example] would I lose my job?)

Originally posted by FMF
You seem to be so intent on being snide you failed to address any of the points anyone has made so far. And you still haven't addressed the original questions raised in this thread. As I said before, it's quite clear that nobody is having any trouble understanding anything here, so your ludicrously smug condescending tone is uncalled for. You strike me as someon n the UK cannot have criminal convictions; as a teacher [for example] would I lose my job?)

Your questions are pointless. If you really understood what I was saying, you'd understand how pointless they are. The protections and penalties afforded are dependent on the government in juridiction. If you're asking for my personal opinion, I see no reason to treat you differently than any other criminal guilty of theft.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Your questions are pointless. The protections and penalties afforded are dependent on the government in jurisdiction. If you're asking for my personal opinion, I see no reason to treat you differently than any other criminal guilty of theft.

OK then. That's a bit more like it.

Now, where I live, there are no protections and there are no penalties. My question to you is this (and you are qualified to answer it because others here are intent on saying it's not theft whereas - despite what you say - I recognize that it is):

If I travelled back to the UK, where there are fairly strict protections and penalties (or so I gather), do you think I should be liable to arrest? Would I need to be carrying copies of the mp3 files for this to be appropriate?

Is "having heard the music" illegal even if the files have been deleted? Or is the possession of the files the key to prosecuting this kind of offence?

The internet IS changing the nature of things - including how to deal with (or even define) certain kinds of crime. I think my questions are pertinent to that.

I would find your take on the above questions interesting. But if you find them pointless, please just ignore this post.

Originally posted by FMF
OK then. That's a bit more like it.

Now, where I live, there are no protections and there are no penalties. My question to you is this (and you are qualified to answer it because others here are intent on saying it's not theft whereas - despite what you say - I recognize that it is):

If I travelled back to the UK, where there are fairly strict protections e above questions interesting. But if you find them pointless, please just ignore this post.

Listen, if you were really looking for an honest discussion, then why didn't you just ask insightful questions instead of starting this thread with that tripe that you did? If you're going to post juvenile attitudes then guess what you get?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Listen, if you were really looking for an honest discussion, then why didn't you just ask insightful questions instead of starting this thread with that tripe that you did? If you're going to post juvenile attitudes then guess what you get?

Theres that superiority complex of yours again, applied to a different person. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't actually make them wrong. And believe it or not your point of view isn't the only one in existence. Nor is it necessarily the right one.

As to copyright theft, I'm well aware its a crime and that it technically makes me a criminal. However I feel no remorse for this due to the fact that I pay artists for art, not distributors. How much do you actually know about the music industry? Or are you arguing from ignorance here? CD's and records bought in stores account for an extremely low percentage of any recording artists overall income. Particularly those who preform live. Most of the money comes from merch, ticket sales etc.

Also most of the music I listen to is generally by artists who advocate the free distribution of their music and ask only that you pay to go and see them if they preform live concerts. And/or donate money to causes their supporting. Funnily enough the artists who actually have an issue with this are those who already seem to have a criminal amount of money and no talent anyway.....

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Mexico's the kind of guy who thinks if you insult his mother he should smash your face with a headbutt...exactly what you're describing.

ATY if you don't mind me asking, what exactly is your problem? And for the record I don't actually advocate violence. I haven't been in a fight since I was 18 and generally avoid conflict through anything but words. You on the other hand advocate guns and violence on a regular basis so aren't your words slightly hypocritical?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Mexico's the kind of guy who thinks if you insult his mother he should smash your face with a headbutt...exactly what you're describing.

Originally posted by Mexico
ATY if you don't mind me asking, what exactly is your problem? And for the record I don't actually advocate violence. I haven't been in a fight since I was 18 and general ...[text shortened]... advocate guns and violence on a regular basis so aren't your words slightly hypocritical?

Yep, I've got to say that AThousandYoung's comment was a bit baffling. His posts frequently propel threads in interesting directions and he is certainly not a slave to any particular ideology. But his attack on you was so bewilderingly wide of the mark, I have been puzzling over it for a day or two. A case of mistaken identity perhaps?

Originally posted by FMF
Yep, I've got to say that AThousandYoung's comment was a bit baffling. His posts frequently propel threads in interesting directions and he is certainly not a slave to any particular ideology. But his attack on you was so bewilderingly wide of the mark, I have been puzzling over it for a day or two. A case of mistaken identity perhaps?

No I know what he's referring to. It's from another thread and taken slightly out of context. I just don't understand the unwarranted attack, its not the first time mind you. I think he's taken a dislike to me based mainly on my name and his dislike of L.A.'s Mexican criminals........

He also seems to bring up topic's or jump into them on whatever side makes him look clever and knowing. for example in this case by jumping in on the attack on my character he's made it look like he himself has a strong character, which I'm beginning to doubt.