is America any less taxed than under the British?

Originally posted by FMF
I have never wasted a minute of my adult life bellyaching about tax. It baffles me how many of you place the question of tax at the very centre of your political universe and philosphical soul. Truly baffles me.

its about freedom

Originally posted by joe beyser
That definately would have given the axis powers a heck of a boost.

Once one is dealing with the ultra rich and powerful, I'm not so sure that "passports" mean so much. If we take Indonesian tycoons, say, working in a very international playing field. It's surely a daft error to assume that those Indonesian tycoons have the best interests of ordinary Indonesians front and foremost, simply because those tycoons happen to hold Indonesian citizenship, yes? And yet, so many "capitalist" and "corporate" assummptions/propaganda rely on this daft 'given'... as they dribble on about rising tides, trickle down and 'people were poorer 100 years ago'. What was so different about the corporate moguls of Britain and their counterparts in Germany at that time? How does the divergence in interests measure up against the overlap in interests?

Originally posted by FMF
I have never wasted a minute of my adult life bellyaching about tax. It baffles me how many of you place the question of tax at the very centre of your political universe and philosphical soul. Truly baffles me.

At what point would you bellyache? Would you complain if they took 70% of your income? How about 90% of your income? How about 100% of your income? Would you simply work for food?

The amount of money you make is proportional to the amount of freedom you have and the amount of power you have. For example, if you had enough money perhaps you would not feel compelled to work at a job you hate or work as many hours that you do now etc. In fact, taxation without representation is why the US was founded so it strikes me odd that you could care less about taxation. Of course the opposite it true. The more revenue from taxation the government recieves the more powerful they become. If anyone questions me, just try to legally challenge someone who is wealthy, (cough OJ), (cough Michael Jackson), (cough Richard Nixon).

Originally posted by utherpendragon
its about freedom

I just don't see it. It strikes me as childlike. And I mean that with respect, not as a taunt. I have enjoyed complete freedom - on my terms anyway - my whole life. I haven't expended a single jot of emotion on the question of how much tax I pay. Being het up about tax all the time - what is the quality of that freedom, emotionally, morally?

Originally posted by whodey
At what point would you bellyache? [...] How about 100% of your income? Would you simply work for food?

You're quite the philosopher, aren't you? What would my hypothetical reaction to a hypothetical 100% tax add to this discussion, except on a silly hypothetical level?

Originally posted by FMF
Once one is dealing with the ultra rich and powerful, I'm not so sure that "passports" mean so much. If we take Indonesian tycoons, say, working in a very international playing field. It's surely a daft error to assume that those Indonesian tycoons have the best interests of ordinary Indonesians fron and foremost, simply because those tycoons happen to hold Indo ime? How does the divergence in interests measure up against the overlap in interests?

The simple fact of the matter is, the wealthy on average live longer. Why is that do you suppose? I would even go so far as to say it buys you a certain degree of happiness.

Of course, if you do not agree perhaps you would not care to pay a "whodey" tax every time you post on a thread. I could send you my address to mail the money if you like.

Originally posted by whodey
The amount of money you make is proportional to the amount of freedom you have and the amount of power you have.

Freedom is about more than money. If you had enjoyed emotional and philosophical freedom in your life I can't imagine you'd be chuntering on about tax all the time. Your preoccupation with it paints a miserable self-portrait of your mindmap.

Originally posted by whodey
I would even go so far as to say [wealth] buys you a certain degree of happiness.

Researchers have been unable to find a correlation between wealth and happiness, except among those who are victims of the violence of poverty.

Originally posted by FMF
I just don't see it. It strikes me as childlike. And I mean that with respect, not as a taunt. I have enjoyed complete freedom - on my terms anyway - my whole life. I haven't expended a single jot of emotion on the question of how much tax I pay. Being het up about tax all the time - what is the quality of that freedom, emotionally, morally?

You have enjoyed complete freedom,you say.Thats good.But,I say that is a matter of perception as well.When the goverment has there hand in my pocket taking my money at every turn in new ways every day,and at increasingly higher rates,I dont feel free.I feel robbed.

Originally posted by whodey
In fact, taxation without representation is why the US was founded so it strikes me odd that you could care less about taxation.

What do you mean here?

Originally posted by utherpendragon
You have enjoyed complete freedom,you say.Thats good.But,I say that is a matter of perception as well.When the goverment has there hand in my pocket taking my money at every turn in new ways every day,and at increasingly higher rates,I dont feel free.I feel robbed.

If you spend your time 'perceiving' that the goverment has their hand in your pocket taking your money at every turn in new ways every day and at increasingly higher rates, then perhaps indeed you are not enjoying - or not able to enjoy - freedom. But to my way of thinking you are your own gaoler. I wouldn't allow such a mundane thing - and all the politically impotent, vitriolic and endless gnashing of teeth that goes with it - to interfere with my happiness and personal freedom of thought and deed. I don't envy any you types who go on and on and on and on about tax. In that respect, I am free from envy too.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
Our nation [i.e. U.S.A.] was founded on fighting tyranny through taxation.

How drab and shallow you make your nation's foundation sound! Weren't their a few loftier things in play too?

Originally posted by FMF
If you spend your time 'perceiving' that the goverment has their hand in your pocket taking your money at every turn in new ways every day and at increasingly higher rates, then perhaps indeed you are not enjoying - or not able to enjoy - freedom. But to my way of thinking you are your own gaoler. I wouldn't allow such a mundane thing - and all the politically i ...[text shortened]... ou types who go on and on and on and on about tax. In that respect, I am free from envy too.

its not perceiving their hands our in my pockets its reality.when you see your check getting smaller and smaller for the same amount of work(income tax,state and federal)and your buying power less from inflation and sales tax you begin to feel the crunch.when they tax they keep on taxing for this and that.it never ends.I agree money does not buy happiness but it buys comfort and is a tool or vehicle to help my family and others as I see fit. I worked for the money am i not entitled to it?

Originally posted by FMF
How drab and shallow you make your nation's foundation sound! Weren't their a few loftier things in play too?

sounds pretty cool to me🙂

Originally posted by utherpendragon
sounds pretty cool to me🙂

A nation founded on a tax issue? And so many of their great great great great grandchildren now defining "freedom" in terms of "level of taxation". It strikes me as baffling and vaguely sad.