John Oliver: Australia's Gun Laws

@no1marauder

I'm trying to remember way back, but didn't you post once (or more than once) about "left libertarians" like Locke -- who had a robust concept of "the commons" (contrary to more recent so-called "right libertarians" )?

@vivify said
As I also pointed out, there were 13 mass shootings in the 18 years up to the year the law was passed. Zero mass shootings afterward.

@vistesd2 said
@no1marauder

I'm trying to remember way back, but didn't you post once (or more than once) about "left libertarians" like Locke -- who had a robust concept of "the commons" (contrary to more recent so-called "right libertarians" )?

@wajoma said
"left libertarians", "right libertarians", "libertarian socialism" (from No1's spoodge site), all these things, these modifiers attached to the word libertarian mean the same thing i.e. not libertarian.

@vistesd2 said
@no1marauder

I'm trying to remember way back, but didn't you post once (or more than once) about "left libertarians" like Locke -- who had a robust concept of "the commons" (contrary to more recent so-called "right libertarians" )?

@wajoma said
So break out your mass shootings graph then, but don't try to use homicides to justify your anti gun ranting.

@no1marauder said
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism#:~:text=Left%2Dlibertarianism%2C%20also%20known%20as,individual%20freedom%20and%20social%20equality.

Unfortunately, Randian, extremist right wingers like Wajoma have done an effective job of hijacking the term, separating it from its classical meanings. But you can't be a "libertarian" and favor capitalism (which is based on private property, the greatest diminishment of liberty ever invented).

@vivify said
From the link in the OP:

"Total deaths from firearms were 521 in the country in 1996. In 2019, with the population up from about 18 million to 25 million, Australia had 219 deaths, official data showed."

@wajoma said
You're boring now. you learned your lesson about stats today, I should charge money, if you want to lie more effectively with stats you'll need to read the same book that those who don't want to be lied to have.

@wajoma said
And on cue No1 posts a link to 'left libertarianism'. Why the word left? Why is it necessary to tack on that word? Because as state capitalism means not capitalism, so left libertarianism means not libertarianism.

@no1marauder said
It's necessary because idiots like you have hijacked the meaning of the word "libertarian" and most people think of it as meaning ardent defenders of the biggest reduction of liberty ever conceived by Man: private property and later capitalism.

This has been explained to you many times, so why don't you stop using a term "libertarian" who's original meaning included op ...[text shortened]... n who is trying to bastardize a political and economic philosophy which finds her views intolerable.

@wajoma said
You keep using left-libertarian, and socialist libertarian and communist libertarian, you're welcome to them all.

In a libertarian society you're free to get together on your commune and to create your 'free' healthcare and 'free' education dream feelings. And they would be free in real terms because you wouldn't be able to force them on anyone, all participants would be v ...[text shortened]... hreat of force over anyone, and the word 'free' would be un-hijacked from the closet control freaks.

@no1marauder said
Private property and capitalism have always been based on government force, without which they could not exist. Anyone who laughably considers either a source of "liberty" is uneducated and/or delusional. No society based on libertarian principles would tolerate such repressive, hierarchal systems.

@wajoma said
Ahh that's clarified the root of your confusion, libertarians believe there is a role for the state but it is limited to police, justice and defence. You're all mixed up on some kind of whacky anarchism trip.

edit: Perhaps we need another term that distinguishes No1s idea from actual Libertarianism, something along the lines: left socialist libertarian anarchist communist libertarianism. That clears that up then.

@wajoma said
Ahh that's clarified the root of your confusion, libertarians believe there is a role for the state but it is limited to police, justice and defence. You're all mixed up on some kind of whacky anarchism trip.