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17 Jul 23
@vivify saidwhat does the alcohol age limit have to do with it? We allow them in the military, we allow them to vote, and as of recently we allow them to change their physical appearance by irreversible surgeries.
If we as a society have agreed that people under 21 are not responsible enough to consume alcohol, why then would we let them have guns?
@vivify saidno, that is not a valid argument for stopping 18 year olds from buying guns.
If we as a society have agreed that people under 21 are not responsible enough to consume alcohol, why then would we let them have guns?
that's a valid argument for lowering the drinking age to 18.
You turn 18, you get to vote, drink, join the army, effectively become a full citizen
You should be able to buy guns.
What nobody should be able to do however is buy them at walmart after a bored employee fakes checking whatever that state requires them to check or sell your gun in the parking lot of a gun convention.
We want gun control, yes. I don't want however to discriminate based on age. An 18 year old should be allowed to buy a gun just like an 80 year old, based on a number of common sense gun control checks
17 Jul 23
@vivify saidSame society decided that no matter how old you are you can't buy 2 boxes of Sudafed because you might use it to get yourself high.
If we as a society have agreed that people under 21 are not responsible enough to consume alcohol, why then would we let them have guns?
AR-15 - no problem.
17 Jul 23
@wildgrass saidSociety didn't decide anything. Society is not a single mind capable of decisions.
Same society decided that no matter how old you are you can't buy 2 boxes of Sudafed because you might use it to get yourself high.
AR-15 - no problem.
@boonon said18 is the age we in the U.S. determined they can make decisions for themselves - but that is not an age we generally entrust them to make decisions for others.
what does the alcohol age limit have to do with it? We allow them in the military, we allow them to vote, and as of recently we allow them to change their physical appearance by irreversible surgeries.
Most states in the U.S. require a minimum age of 21 to be a police officer; Congressman, it's 25; Senator it's 30; president is 35.
So while 18 is old enough to make decisions for their own lives, society doesn't think they should be in positions where they can affect other people's lives, like with getting drunk...or (arguably) owning a gun.
Regarding the military: that's a highly structured and strict environment with the best trainers and firearm instruction in the country. An 18 yr old in the military is not the same as an 18 yr old living in his mom's basement.
@wildgrass saidIt's an important quibble, collectivists like to use 'we' as if they're speaking for everyone. It's important to note when they say 'we' they mean a group of people that like to enlist the services of goobermint thugs to force their dream feelings on fellow citizens. That's along way from the entire population sharing the same thoughts.
And yet decisions in societies are made. You just dont like the word choice, quibble with semantics.
Problem is more people are waking up to their 1984 double speak.
17 Jul 23
@vivify saidvivify:
18 is the age we in the U.S. determined they can make decisions for themselves - but that is not an age we generally entrust them to make decisions for others.
Most states in the U.S. require a minimum age of 21 to be a police officer; Congressman, it's 25; Senator it's 30; president is 35.
So while 18 is old enough to make decisions for their own lives, society does ...[text shortened]... country. An 18 yr old in the military is not the same as an 18 yr old living in his mom's basement.
"...society doesn't think..."
LOL
It sure doesn't think, because it doesn't have a singular mind. 😵 😆 😴
@wajoma saidNah, it's just the world that exists. Reality. Rules are in place. Some rules make more sense than others. Maybe just a random dude saying we (yeah, all of us, collectively) can't have but one box of Sudafed at a time, but also more likely proposed by law enforcement as a way to make their jobs easier. Society could say no, protest, vote, etc. but we love cops too much.
It's an important quibble, collectivists like to use 'we' as if they're speaking for everyone. It's important to note when they say 'we' they mean a group of people that like to enlist the services of goobermint thugs to force their dream feelings on fellow citizens. That's along way from the entire population sharing the same thoughts.
Problem is more people are waking up to their 1984 double speak.
18 Jul 23
@wildgrass saidYeah, nah. That's exactly what I'm talking about, reality, and the reality is that society does not have a collective mind that agrees on anything, or that has unanimous shared thoughts. So when the collectivists say 'we' they should acknowledge who that 'we' is and that it is not society.
Nah, it's just the world that exists. Reality. Rules are in place. Some rules make more sense than others. Maybe just a random dude saying we (yeah, all of us, collectively) can't have but one box of Sudafed at a time, but also more likely proposed by law enforcement as a way to make their jobs easier. Society could say no, protest, vote, etc. but we love cops too much.
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18 Jul 23
@vivify saidAt 18 they are allowed to make the decision to save their lives or the lives of others.
18 is the age we in the U.S. determined they can make decisions for themselves - but that is not an age we generally entrust them to make decisions for others.
Most states in the U.S. require a minimum age of 21 to be a police officer; Congressman, it's 25; Senator it's 30; president is 35.
So while 18 is old enough to make decisions for their own lives, society does ...[text shortened]... country. An 18 yr old in the military is not the same as an 18 yr old living in his mom's basement.
18 Jul 23
@vivify saidI want to watch this when I have time. Thanks for the reference.
An excellent segment from Jon Stewart with an Oklahoma state Senator on gun safety and the 2nd Amendment.
This is a serious interview: no comedic bits, no gotcha questions, just pure common sense:
[youtube]tCuIxIJBfCY[/youtube]
19 Jul 23
@sonhouse saidWould you be happier if children die from another kind of rifle?
@vivify
They clearly don't give a rats ass how many children die from gun violence, they WANT zero restrictions so some idiot 18 yo can buy an assault rifle and shoot up their school. No big deal since the right to own guns is WAY higher on the scale of importance than any kid dying from gun wounds.
You don't even want the age limit to go up to 21, going, well at 18 they ...[text shortened]... rs licenses, join the military and the like so what is the problem running that age to buy up to 21?
Assault rifles are not the only rifles that can shoot a lot of people. I have never understood why democrats like singling out assault rifles. It must be repetition of misinformation.
You can buy semi automatic rifles that are not assault weapons. They can shoot bullet after bullet just as fast. The only way to limit how many bullets can be fired while keeping semi automatic rifles legal is to make high capacity magazines illegal, but they can be made at home with 3D printers.
3D printers can make about 80% of a gun with only 20% of steel parts needed. Technology is making gun restrictions a temporary solution at best.
If the age limit is raised to 21 it can be raised to any age. Perhaps after that you would want to raise the age to 65. Do you support that in the end?
19 Jul 23
1 edit
@wajoma said'We' does not mean unanimous shared thoughts. That's silly logic.
Yeah, nah. That's exactly what I'm talking about, reality, and the reality is that society does not have a collective mind that agrees on anything, or that has unanimous shared thoughts. So when the collectivists say 'we' they should acknowledge who that 'we' is and that it is not society.
It is common and perfectly appropriate to use the word 'we' to describe things that we collectively live with. We live with the Sudafed law and gun laws, without needing to specify exactly what lawmaker or bureaucratic agency made the decision. That's reality, even though we didn't all sign a piece of paper agreeing to abide by it.
Just comply with police and you won't get hurt.