Katyn Massacre Redux

@no1marauder said
There's a lot here about the "launch" of a rocket. Can the rocket from that launch be definitively traced to the impact point by the hospital?

That rockets were in the air somewhere near the hospital doesn't prove they were what hit the hospital and if Israel traced the area of the rocket's launch they would have an incentive to target that area.

That the rockets went up and a few seconds later the explosion happened and that there's no evidence of a crater or anything else that you'd normally expect to find in an Israeli airstrike and that there is plenty of video of the Hamas launches at that moment and no video of incoming missiles is powerful circumstantial evidence that it was probably PIJ or Hamas.

No, it's not 100% proof. I don't think these things can ever really be proven "definitively" at night and under the cover of war when both sides are shooting, but if this was Israel, it would have to be one of the strangest coincidences of all time.

If not 99%, then 95%. Whatever. The point is that you certainly can't blame Israel on this evidence.

@mott-the-hoople said
"Why did an aide to Netanyahu post a tweet saying:"

he didnt! he retweeted a Reuters article, then realized the article wasnt correct, then deleted his retweet.

READ you own link.

That was his, rather unbelievable story, AFTER he deleted his tweet.

@sh76 said
That the rockets went up and a few seconds later the explosion happened and that there's no evidence of a crater or anything else that you'd normally expect to find in an Israeli airstrike and that there is plenty of video of the Hamas launches at that moment and no video of incoming missiles is powerful circumstantial evidence that it was probably PIJ or Hamas.

No, it's not ...[text shortened]... If not 99%, then 95%. Whatever. The point is that you certainly can't blame Israel on this evidence.

A stranger coincidence than somehow a Palestinian rocket hitting a hospital in Gaza for the first ever during the same time Israel has launched an unprecedented wave of mass bombing in that area with something like 10,000 bombs dropped already?

Will Israel allow UN teams to inspect the area and to have access to all the IDF's intelligence regarding the incident?

The evidence is "inconclusive" right now. More needs to be gathered by independent fact finders.

@sh76 said
That the rockets went up and a few seconds later the explosion happened and that there's no evidence of a crater or anything else that you'd normally expect to find in an Israeli airstrike and that there is plenty of video of the Hamas launches at that moment and no video of incoming missiles is powerful circumstantial evidence that it was probably PIJ or Hamas.

No, it's not ...[text shortened]... If not 99%, then 95%. Whatever. The point is that you certainly can't blame Israel on this evidence.

Do you support this?:

"The UAE has called for a full, independent investigation into the bombing of Al Ahli Baptist hospital in Gaza ..................."

https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/national/gaza-is-laid-to-waste-uae-calls-for-investigation-into-al-ahli-baptist-hospital-bombing/ar-AA1isvoP

@no1marauder said

The evidence is "inconclusive" right now. More needs to be gathered by independent fact finders.

Yes, exactly, 'inconclusive' and the only reason we don't see the airstrike expert categorically firing off accusations and blame is his knuckles have been thoroughly rapped in another thread.

For this I take credit.

@wajoma said
Yes, exactly, 'inconclusive' and the only reason we don't see the airstrike expert categorically firing off accusations and blame is his knuckles have been thoroughly rapped in another thread.

For this I take credit.

Then you're a bigger egotistical idiot than I thought.

You got schooled in the other thread; too stupid to even know what an airstrike was or being able to read a Guardian article.

Anyway, this is off-topic stalking by you. Grow up.

@no1marauder said
Then you're a bigger egotistical idiot than I thought.

You got schooled in the other thread; too stupid to even know what an airstrike was or being able to read a Guardian article.

Anyway, this is off-topic stalking by you. Grow up.

It is relevant to the subject, you have a record of claiming expertise you don't have and trying to attach your dream feeling accusations to legit actual restrained reporting.

This has been tempered and I do claim credit.

You could restate:

'Israel planned and carried out the bombing of the convoy'.

signed the airstrike expert, No.1

@wajoma said
It is relevant to the subject, you have a record of claiming expertise you don't have and trying to attach your dream feeling accusations to legit actual restrained reporting.

This has been tempered and I do claim credit.

You could restate:

'Israel planned and carried out the bombing of the convoy'.

signed the airstrike expert, No.1

I won't waste further time on your childish attempts at personalizing the thread.

To repeat: Grow up.

@no1marauder said
I won't waste further time on your childish attempts at personalizing the thread.

To repeat: Grow up.

I knew it, haha, hasn't got the balls to fess up, and hasn't got the balls to restate his original dream feeling hate.

@no1marauder said
Do you support this?:

"The UAE has called for a full, independent investigation into the bombing of Al Ahli Baptist hospital in Gaza ..................."

https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/national/gaza-is-laid-to-waste-uae-calls-for-investigation-into-al-ahli-baptist-hospital-bombing/ar-AA1isvoP

Of course I support it, but if you mean an on-the-ground investigation, it seems impossible to carry out. Anyone I would trust to go into Hamas-controlled territory to conduct an investigation would have to be insane to do so, as they'll likely end up as hostages.

But if you mean an inquiry into the available evidence by reliable scientists (maybe the Myth Busters? 😛 ), I absolutely would support it.

@mchill said

I'm sure this is true, but now America has 2 navy carrier groups in the area + a proposed 100 billion aid package to Israel in the works. I wonder sometimes why the United States must always take on the role of the world's policeman when we're struggling to solve our own problems here at home. 🙁

Our tax dollars at "work."

@sh76 said
Of course I support it, but if you mean an on-the-ground investigation, it seems impossible to carry out. Anyone I would trust to go into Hamas-controlled territory to conduct an investigation would have to be insane to do so, as they'll likely end up as hostages.

But if you mean an inquiry into the available evidence by reliable scientists (maybe the Myth Busters? 😛 ), I absolutely would support it.

Obviously an on ground investigation is required.

I imagine the UN Security Council could authorize it.

@no1marauder said
I see a bunch of independent experts saying the evidence is "inconclusive" and even the NSC hedging.

Don't see your "99%" certainty.

The NSC doesn't seem to be hedging anymore.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/18/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-war-wednesday-intl-hnk/index.html

The United States says intelligence suggests Israel is “not responsible” for a deadly explosion at a Gaza hospital, with US President Joe Biden on Wednesday echoing Israel’s explanation that the blast was likely caused by an “errant rocket fired by a terrorist group in Gaza.”

Hundreds of people were likely killed in Tuesday’s blast at the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital in the center of Gaza City, where thousands were sheltering, the Palestinian Health Ministry said in a statement.

Palestinian officials have blamed Israeli airstrikes for the massive loss of life, but Israel has insisted it was not responsible.

On Wednesday, the US National Security Council (NSC) said it had analyzed overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information. It found that “Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday,” NSC spokesperson Adrienne Watson said in a statement.

Initial evidence gathered by the American intelligence community suggested that the hospital strike came from a rocket launched by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad group – a rival Islamist militant group to Hamas in Gaza – officials told CNN separately.

Among the evidence that’s been gathered is a blast analysis that suggests it was a ground explosion rather than an airstrike that hit the hospital, one of the sources said. There was no singular crater suggesting there was a bomb, but there was extensive fire damage and scattered debris that is consistent with an explosion starting from the ground level, according to the source.

Etc.

Oh, and of course...

Anger and protest spread
The blast has added fuel to rising anger in the region over the situation in Gaza.

Protests condemning the hospital explosion have erupted in multiple cities across the Middle East and North Africa, including in Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran and Tunisia. Protests also rocked the occupied West Bank city of Ramallah as demonstrators clashed with Palestinian security forces.

There were also protests in Baghdad on Tuesday, where hundreds of protesters attempted to cross a bridge leading to the area that houses the US Embassy. The demonstrators, who were chanting anti-Israel slogans, were stopped by security forces.

In Lebanon, hundreds of protesters gathered in the square that leads to the US Embassy in Awkar, which is just north of the capital Beirut, and tried to break through security barriers, according to a CNN team there.

Protests continued on Wednesday when pro-Palestinian demonstrators had skirmishes with police near the US Embassy. Police fired tear gas and used water cannons against the protesters, according to local media and video footage released by AFP.

The US Embassy in Beirut advised Americans to avoid the Awkar area due to the protests, in a security alert on Wednesday.

Antisemitic attacks have also been on the rise. In Germany, security services are investigating after two Molotov cocktails were thrown in the direction of a Berlin synagogue in the early hours of Wednesday.

-snip-

Jordan canceled a planned Wednesday summit between Biden and the leaders of Jordan, Egypt and the Palestinian Authority. Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas pulled out of the meeting earlier Tuesday in the immediate aftermath of the explosion.

Several nations, including Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates, have released statements condemning Israel following the explosion.

Hamas (or PIJ) blows up a Gaza hospital and the Muslim world goes nuts condemning Israel and anti-Jewish violence explodes.

F-ed up.

Truly.

@no1marauder said
I won't waste further time on your childish attempts at personalizing the thread.

To repeat: Grow up.

We saw the same ploy during the wuflu propaganda campaign, wild, crazy claims from armchair experts, the paid MSM and even goobermint bureaurats later proven wrong but PR damage already done. We have had the experience before and their 'cry wolf' misinformation has lost credibility.

YouTube

For the fanatics this will not be enough, so Hamas told a few fibs, doesn't mean they told them last time, or the time before that, or the time before that. They don't think who stands to gain from the 'information' the main thing is the knee jerk reaction to 'inflame tension' (Hagari). Just keep the war porn rolling eh No1, pour a little more gas on the fire. There will be flames, doesn't matter where the flames came from and how you contributed to them. How a news article that makes no accusation, that cites no blame, can be used to fan those flames.

And you know if the Guardian or the BBC could possibly assert with authority that the IDF were to blame there would be no holding back (as No.1 should have done) there'd be no restraint (as No.1 should have shown) it'd be all on with the blame game (as No.1 pre-emptively did do)

Too late, let's move onto the next war porn, to distort, to twist.

@no1marauder said
Obviously an on ground investigation is required.

I imagine the UN Security Council could authorize it.

lets get you on the record…do you support hamas?