Katyn Massacre Redux

@sh76 said
According to the US government, it's basically a settled issue (at least that Israel had nothing to do with it).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/24/al-ahli-hospital-us-intelligence/

It's settled, but not because it's verifiably true. Israel are our allies and we are funding them so it's not good politics to admit that they bombed a hospital.

Who knows. I don't really care who did it but I'm amused that you can be so sure about what's happening in a war zone with propagandists, opportunists, and capitalists everywhere.

Certainly Israel has motive, opportunity and means to do this. 99% is a bizarre level of confidence.

@wildgrass said
False and true.

I think Hamas leaders were probably there at the hospital. They have a track record of tunneling under civilian areas and using humans as shields. Israel made a calculated decision to kill the terrorists. The civilians killed in this one attack are a very small percentage of civilians that Israel has killed in the past two weeks. We shouldnt judge then fo ...[text shortened]... decisions, they are defending themselves, but we can decide whether we should fund these decisions.

Wow.

So you think it probably that Israeli ammunition hit the hospital?

You think that the US government and AP don't know what they're talking about or are actively lying?

@mott-the-hoople said
wildass is furthering islamic terrorist propaganda

And you're a war monger who doesn't even remember why we invaded Iraq.

@wildgrass said
It's settled, but not because it's verifiably true. Israel are our allies and we are funding them so it's not good politics to admit that they bombed a hospital.

Who knows. I don't really care who did it but I'm amused that you can be so sure about what's happening in a war zone with propagandists, opportunists, and capitalists everywhere.

Certainly Israel has motive, opportunity and means to do this. 99% is a bizarre level of confidence.

As any good criminal law attorney will tell you, motive, opportunity and means may play well on Law & Order, but doesn't mean squat in real life. You need actual evidence.

As the Great Bill James put it:

Real evidence bears not the slightest resemblance to the so-often-cited structure of motive, means and opportunity. The problem with the concept of motive, means and opportunity is that hundreds of thousands of people every year have the motive, means and opportunity to commit crimes that they had absolutely nothing to do with. Suppose that you apply this concept of “proof” to some ordinary event.

Let us suppose that the prosecution is trying to prove that you purchased a melon last Saturday. Did you have a motive to purchase a melon? Well, yeah... I was hungry and I like watermelon, so I guess I had a motive to purchase a watermelon. Did you have the opportunity to purchase a watermelon? Well . .. sure. There’ a grocery right next to my office, and they had watermelons on sale for 49 cents a pound. I guess I had the opportunity to purchase one. Did you have the means to pur- chase a watermelon? Well ... sure. Whats a watermelon cost, five, six dollars? I certainly can't deny that I did have the means to purchase a watermelon.

The only thing is, I didn't purchase no goddamned watermelon. Motive, means and opportunity have nothing to do with real evidence. Real evidence that I purchased a watermelon is like a sales receipt for a watermelon that has my fingerprints on it, a check that I wrote to the grocery store for that amount on that date, and a videotape of me carrying a watermelon out of the store. There’s a half-eaten watermelon in the refrigerator and watermelon rinds in the garbage; you got me. Motive, means and opportunity, you've got squat.

@sh76 said
As any good criminal law attorney will tell you, motive, opportunity and means may play well on Law & Order, but doesn't mean squat in real life. You need actual evidence.

As the Great Bill James put it:

Real evidence bears not the slightest resemblance to the so-often-cited structure of motive, means and opportunity. The problem with the concept of motive, means an ...[text shortened]... atermelon rinds in the garbage; you got me. Motive, means and opportunity, you've got squat.

I don't have evidence of anything, but I'm not the one asserting who dunnit.

@sh76 said
Wow.

So you think it probably that Israeli ammunition hit the hospital?

You think that the US government and AP don't know what they're talking about or are actively lying?

Probably Hamas was there. That's based on decades of evidence regarding their war tactics. I don't know anything beyond that but was simply laying out a possible scenario. Other possibilities I have heard seem pretty unlikely.

The Twitter video is baaaarely evidence of anything, possibly launched from Israel, possibly blew up miles away.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

The point is that's not what was presented to Americans as the reason why. All of the protestors and politicians who distrusted the intelligence community and president were right. We were lied to. But those protestors were labeled as terrorist sympathizers and chastised for emboldening the enemy.

If the truth was presented there's no way to justify thousands of soldiers and trillions of dollars. Our leaders and intelligence lie to us during war times to justify things. This is just history. The lies in the Iraq example were part of the plan.

@sh76 said
So, let's say you dispute the 99% figure.

True or false:

1. It's probable that Israel did not launch the explosive that caused the hospital explosion.

2. The wild accusations thrown at Israel and the diplomatic attacks were therefore wrong and unjustified.

Actually looking at unedited footage which show Israeli air strikes hitting around the area of the hospital 15-30 minutes before the blast there and the "misfired" rocket in the foreground nowhere near the hospital seconds before the blast, it seems highly probable it was Israeli ordinance that caused it.

@no1marauder said
Actually looking at unedited footage which show Israeli air strikes hitting around the area of the hospital 15-30 minutes before the blast there and the "misfired" rocket in the foreground nowhere near the hospital seconds before the blast, it seems highly probable it was Israeli ordinance that caused it.

the intelligence community that actually has evidence of what happened is exactly opposite of what you say...but I know, you are always right...LOL

marerider furthering islamic terrorist propaganda

@mott-the-hoople said
the intelligence community that actually has evidence of what happened is exactly opposite of what you say...but I know, you are always right...LOL

marerider furthering islamic terrorist propaganda

You remain the gullible dupe you always have been. The IDF used the same footage from Al-Jazeera but edited it to leave out the explosions from the nearby air strikes.

@mott-the-hoople said
the intelligence community that actually has evidence of what happened is exactly opposite of what you say...but I know, you are always right...LOL

marerider furthering islamic terrorist propaganda

You're out there still defending Colin Powells intelligence on WMDs ???

@no1marauder said
Actually looking at unedited footage which show Israeli air strikes hitting around the area of the hospital 15-30 minutes before the blast there and the "misfired" rocket in the foreground nowhere near the hospital seconds before the blast, it seems highly probable it was Israeli ordinance that caused it.

And the AP is also in on the coverup?

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hospital-rocket-gaza-e0fa550faa4678f024797b72132452e3

@sh76 said
And the AP is also in on the coverup?

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hospital-rocket-gaza-e0fa550faa4678f024797b72132452e3

Did you look at the footage cited to?

Do you deny there were Israeli Air strikes in the vicinity literally minutes before the blast?