Nord Stream Attack

@no1marauder said
The truth matters a little, doesn't it?

Not in the GOP.

@techsouth said
Funny. You use the phrase "conspiracy theorists" as if that somehow bolsters your point.

Do you think there is ANYTHING the public does not know about the war in Ukraine? Is it your contention that nowhere in this war does there exist a group of men who are doing harm in ways that are concealed from the public? That is what the word "conspiracy" means.

It has been ...[text shortened]... ory? The CIA? Is that the same group that said Hunter's laptop looked like Russian disinformation?

It does bolster my point that cranks like you can produce so little evidence or even reasonable logic to support your suppositions.

If the CIA was going to plant a false story, it would hardly make sense to blame the Ukrainians.

@techsouth said
I find it curious that news shows so little skepticism. If Trump had said that the US didn't blow it up, they'd accuse him of lying. If Trump had said that the US DID blow it up, they'd accuse him of lying too.

It is interesting to watch major news outlets launder propaganda with no skepticism and Americans to believe it with no skepticism.

Oh how you must hate Fox News for its fawning attitude to Trump and their support of his every outlandish claim
Most news outlets just publish the statements from politicians, it’s not really their job to judge the claims ether way

@no1marauder said
I had it backwards but Nord Stream 1 was still in use up until August 2022. Western European nations were complaining about cuts in its service before Russia suspended its use in a bid to pressure them to relax sanctions. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/26/explainer-nord-stream-1-gas-pipeline-russia-germany-europe

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/02 ...[text shortened]... m/business/energy/us-plans-sanctions-company-building-russias-nord-stream-2-pipeline-cnn-2022-02-23/

“ Only conspiracy theorists give much credence to the belief that Biden's announced intention shortly after the invasion to "end Nord Stream 2" ”
I agree he was obviously referring to his diplomatic push to end European reliance on Russian fuel.

@no1marauder said
It does bolster my point that cranks like you can produce so little evidence or even reasonable logic to support your suppositions.

If the CIA was going to plant a false story, it would hardly make sense to blame the Ukrainians.

My contention is that I don't believe "A". Or more precisely, I don't believe that "A" is a credible claim, although I cannot completely rule out it's veracity. Whatever my opinion of as to who blew up the Nord Stream pipeline was before this month, it is the same now. A Washington Post story claiming it was an Ukraine operation has 0 credibility and changes my guess of what may have happened absolutely none.

The fact that the Washington Post can report this without skepticism actually gives reason to be more skeptical. They're not even doing good journalism if they don't consider obvious questions such as this.

You're argument is that I must produce an alternative and argue vigorously for it's veracity in order for me to say that "A" is not credible. I say that I can not believe "A" without being certain of any specific alternative.

It is not in dispute that the US intelligence workers have deliberately lied to the US. It is also not in dispute that US intelligence is very good at lying.

If the CIA was going to plant a false story, it would hardly make sense to blame the Ukrainians.

Really? You must think you are very well versed in all the hidden motivations on the world stage to draw that conclusion.

Is there any chance there are variables you're not aware of?

I can think of one reason to blame the Ukrainians. That is so that the US is not to blame. I am not saying I know that to be true. It's just that that sounds at least as plausible as the premise that the Ukrainians blew up the pipeline independently of US operational support, especially after Biden's very tough sounding promise that the pipeline would not be a thing anymore.

I suppose the CIA would prefer that the Kenyans took the blame, but that might be a hard sell. Perhaps they'd settle for the Ukrainians taking the blame. Or at least muddying the water a bit.

@kevcvs57 said
“ Only conspiracy theorists give much credence to the belief that Biden's announced intention shortly after the invasion to "end Nord Stream 2" ”
I agree he was obviously referring to his diplomatic push to end European reliance on Russian fuel.

Really?

Was that obvious to you?

He seemed to be talking really really tough for someone who was supposedly talking about working diplomacy over an asset for which the US had no direct connection.

@kevcvs57 said
Oh how you must hate Fox News for its fawning attitude to Trump and their support of his every outlandish claim
Most news outlets just publish the statements from politicians, it’s not really their job to judge the claims ether way

Is that how you saw MSNBC handling Trump?

@techsouth said
My contention is that I don't believe "A". Or more precisely, I don't believe that "A" is a credible claim, although I cannot completely rule out it's veracity. Whatever my opinion of as to who blew up the Nord Stream pipeline was before this month, it is the same now. A Washington Post story claiming it was an Ukraine operation has 0 credibility and changes my guess of ...[text shortened]... . Perhaps they'd settle for the Ukrainians taking the blame. Or at least muddying the water a bit.

Thanks for confirming you have absolutely nothing to support your implied allegation against Biden except a hostility towards the WaPo because it isn't a primary source of right wing propaganda that the gullible like yourself swallow hook, line and sinker.

@no1marauder said
Thanks for confirming you have absolutely nothing to support your implied allegation against Biden except a hostility towards the WaPo because it isn't a primary source of right wing propaganda that the gullible like yourself swallow hook, line and sinker.

One of us has expressed skepticism on this thread. The other has expressed trust in a narrative in which there is much motivation to lie.

One of us thinks he can independently confirm the evidence in this case. The other understands that private citizens don't conduct their own private investigations of international events.

One of us is swallowing propaganda hook, line, and sinker. The other uses the the handle "TechSouth".

@kevcvs57 said
Well I was pretty much the same only I was leaning toward Russia. I never made any definitive claims other than it was wrong to count Russia out as a suspect given their history of blaming others for what they themselves are intent on doing. Scariest time in the conflict was when Russia claimed that Ukraine was going to sabotage the biggest nuclear power station in Europe.
My mind was never closed to Ukraine being the culprit other than it seemed a stupid move.

Try reading the first sentence in the OP.

Nonetheless, the evidence cited in the WP article and other sources is a lot more compelling than your "The US must have done it and lied about it and than pushed a false flag story because I don't like Joe Biden".

EDIT: Sorry, that was meant to be a reply to techsouth.