Originally posted by AThousandYoungAs I said most not all.I do not expect you to or most "american" posters in this debate forum. You have stated quite clearly your admiration for our President and thats good.Thats your right. I do not hate the man personally.But, I do not think he is qualified for the job and his adgenda I am vehemently opposed to.
I don't define those as apologies. Where do you get this idea that most Americans do?
Again though ,you know "apology tour" is not a phrase utherpendragon coined as FMF implies.
Originally posted by utherpendragonBut this alone - your vehemence - does not turn his statements into apologies.
I do not hate the man personally.But, I do not think he is qualified for the job and his adgenda I am vehemently opposed to.
As far as I can see, the only places in the U.S. "media" where Obama's trips & speeches have been routinesly referred to as "Apology Tours" have been on the rightwing margins and in far right blogosphere. You agree with these people. These people agree with you. But it still doesn't turn what he said into "apologies", your collective vehemence notwithstanding.
Originally posted by FMFwell you're not"looking hard enough".
But this alone - your vehemence - does not turn his statements into apologies.
As far as I can see, the only places in the U.S. "media" where Obama's trips & speeches have been routinesly referred to as "Apology Tours" have been on the rightwing margins and in far right blogosphere. You agree with these people. These people agree with you. But it still doesn't turn what he said into "apologies", your collective vehemence notwithstanding.
Any how, you dont consider these apologies,whatever. It matters not to me.Enjoy Indonesia and all that shabu-shabu.
Well utherpendragon has had a go but come up short. I am a neutral non-American with no horse in your political race. He quoted extensively and yet none of them were "apologies", as any disinterested reader would confirm.
So how about the rest of you? Sam The Sham, scacchipazzo, NimzovichLarsen, zeeblebot and whoever else. Can you rise to the challenge? From part two of the OP:
"Could you folks who continually say that the president is apologizing for America all over the world, could you please just quote me a couple of examples?"
Anyone?
Originally posted by utherpendragonIt's a video that deliberately and deceptively takes one of his quotes out of context. The difference here is that us Democrats aren't afraid to post full context. Like this...
watch the darn video and stop crying!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/03/AR2009040301519.html
FULL CONTEXT
Originally posted by utherpendragon1: His country of origin is completely irrelevant to the conversation.
Its funny how you, my little Brit friend, sit there pontificating in Indonesia about American politics as if you know what the hell you are talking about. I doubt you have ever been to the states but are an expert none the less.
These are examples of his "apologies". Not says me but the majority of the U.S. defines them as such.Normal citizens,poli ...[text shortened]... h his good friend Peter lecturing me about my President. It does not get any better than this.
2: He is right, NONE of those are apologies.
3: All of your examples are completely taken out of context, which is par for the course with conservatives.
What's funny is THIS is an example of an "apology" to them. It's sad how this country has become so infested with such simple minded, sheepish ditto-heads.
OBAMA'S APOLOGY
So we must be honest with ourselves. In recent years, we've allowed our alliance to drift. I know that there have been honest disagreements over policy, but we also know that there's something more that has crept into our relationship.
In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.
But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad.
On both sides of the Atlantic, these attitudes have become all too common. They are not wise. They do not represent the truth. They threaten to widen the divide across the Atlantic and leave us both more isolated. They fail to acknowledge the fundamental truth that America cannot confront the challenges of this century alone, but that Europe cannot confront them without America.
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperFMF has a new lap dog! LOL 🙂
1: His country of origin is completely irrelevant to the conversation.
2: He is right, NONE of those are apologies.
3: All of your examples are completely taken out of context, which is par for the course with conservatives.
Shine my boots Boy!
Instead of calling it an "apology tour," maybe we can call it a "confessing that the US has done some bad stuff" tour, and then we can stop arguing about semantics and start discussing substance.
I will say that it does make me wince a little when the President tells European audiences that the US has been so dismissive and derisive towards them, when:
1) You NEVER see European leaders admitting the same about the more insidious European attitudes towards us.
2) The reason why the US has done things without European leadership is that there basically is no European leadership. Europe has not united around a single major issue to provide the leadership necessary to resolve it. Let's face it, when you look at the recent cases of African and Balkan genocide attempts, you can see how ineffective EU leadership can be in dictating geopolitical policy.
That having been said, does it really bother me when Obama tells the Europeans how important they are and how we shouldn't dismiss them? Not really. Who really cares whether they think they're important? On the contrary, let the Europeans feels good about themselves. No skin off our nose. Maybe a perception that they're important will inspire them to get their act together and contribute their share of geopolitical leadership (and money, for that matter).
Originally posted by sh76Perhaps no leadership is better than disastrous leadership.
Instead of calling it an "apology tour," maybe we can call it a "confessing that the US has done some bad stuff" tour, and then we can stop arguing about semantics and start discussing substance.
I will say that it does make me wince a little when the President tells European audiences that the US has been so dismissive and derisive towards them, when:
1) ...[text shortened]... ther and contribute their share of geopolitical leadership (and money, for that matter).
Also, Europeans are comfortable enough in their own skin that they don't feel compelled to be the world's bully boys (and then expect the rest of the world to be thankful for it) in order to compensate for any insecurities and a lack of direction and a defecit of knowledge about anything that is outwith their own borders. Unlike a certain ally across the Atlantic.
Originally posted by sh76http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-esteem#Criticism_and_controversy
Instead of calling it an "apology tour," maybe we can call it a "confessing that the US has done some bad stuff" tour, and then we can stop arguing about semantics and start discussing substance.
I will say that it does make me wince a little when the President tells European audiences that the US has been so dismissive and derisive towards them, when:
1) ...[text shortened]... ther and contribute their share of geopolitical leadership (and money, for that matter).
Criticism and controversy
The concept of self-esteem has been criticized by different camps but notably by figures like Dalai Lama, Carl Rogers, Paul Tillich, Alfred Korzybski and George Carlin.
Perhaps one of the strongest theoretical and operational critiques of the concept of self-esteem has come from American psychologist Albert Ellis who on numerous occasions criticized the philosophy as essentially self-defeating and ultimately destructive.[20] Although acknowledging the human propensity and tendency to ego rating as innate, he has claimed that the philosophy of self-esteem in the last analysis is both unrealistic, illogical and self- and socially destructive – often doing more harm than good. Questioning the foundations and usefulness of generalized ego strength, he has claimed that self-esteem is based on arbitrary definitional premises, over-generalized, perfectionistic and grandiose thinking.[20] Acknowledging that rating and valuing behaviours and characteristics is functional and even necessary, he sees rating and valuing human beings' totality and total selves as irrational, unethical and absolutistic. The healthier alternative to self-esteem according to him is unconditional self-acceptance and unconditional other-acceptance and these concepts are incorporated in his therapeutic system Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. In 2005 he released a book with a detailed analysis of the concept of self-esteem titled "The Myth of Self-esteem".
Originally posted by The SnapperActually, no leadership IS disastrous. When the League of Nations fell apart, well, we know what happened.
Perhaps no leadership is better than disastrous leadership.
Also, Europeans are comfortable enough in their own skin that they don't feel compelled to be the world's bully boys (and then expect the rest of the world to be thankful for it) in order to compensate for any insecurities and a lack of direction and a defecit of knowledge about anything that is outwith their own borders. Unlike a certain ally across the Atlantic.
If Europeans want to complain about the US' policies, fine. But they shouldn't just fail to exercise any of their own leadership. There are world issues that require direction. Dealing with Iran's nuclear ambitions; dealing with NK, trying to mediate the Israel-Palestine conflict, trying to protect the environment, trying to prevent exploitation of the vulnerable; having a FAIR forum where countries can mediate their disputes.
These are things that require direction from somewhere. If some Europeans don't like the leadership provided by the US, then provide some of your own leadership. The US will take you seriously. But first you have to get your act together and take yourselves seriously rather than just incessantly whine about the US.
Your hopefully tongue-in-cheek assertion that US foreign policy built on a desire to be the World's "bully boys" and is done "in order to compensate for any insecurities and a lack of direction and a defecit of knowledge about anything that is outwith their own borders" is either a bad joke or ignorant xenophobic hateful BS.