Only in America

Originally posted by bill718
Only in America does no one seem to notice when CFO's and CEO's make $1,500-$15,000 and hour, yet most act like the end of the world will come if the minimum wage is raised to $15.00/hr. Can you say "brain washed sheep"?? 🙄

And where does all that political money flow into?

Politicians like Hillary and Jeb.

Baaa, vote for Hillary or Jeb to "fix" everything.

Originally posted by KellyJay
A business job is NOT to share its wealth with anyone, it is to make money.
Now where that money goes is up to those that run the business, its their business.
Large companies are no different than the smaller ones in that they have to be making
enough money to stay alive, and spending it in the right places to continue that trend.

Money gets sucked o ...[text shortened]... where I now only work 1 job. If I ever have to go back to that, well than
I'll go back to that.

replacing humanity with machines to keep the profits up,you mean.?
Please share with me what part of your post included humanity, because that is what we are all a part of. Demanding your fair share, or as you put it,MORE, does not necessarily equate with lazy. Why draw that conclusion.? The areas that the money gets put back into in multinationals is usually up the food chain. Multinationals give the most where it is needed the least and give the least where it is needed the most. Simple.
A business should have a social responsibility and that includes giving excessive profits back in tax. I believe that profit is the unearned, though not necessarily undeserved, portion of a financial transaction.

Originally posted by jimmac
replacing humanity with machines to keep the profits up,you mean.?
Please share with me what part of your post included humanity, because that is what we are all a part of. Demanding your fair share, or as you put it,MORE, does not necessarily equate with lazy. Why draw that conclusion.? The areas that the money gets put back into in multinationals i ...[text shortened]... t profit is the unearned, though not necessarily undeserved, portion of a financial transaction.

Businesses don't exist to give jobs, good or bad to workers. People invest time, money, ideas, property in creating businesses, and in the process they provide work to others, who choose to work or not.

If machines do the work faster or more accurately than people, so much the better. The consumer, who are people, benefit. Around the turn of the 20th century in America a large percentage of the population was employed in farming. Now it is something like 3% that do that work, and provide food for a lot of the rest of the world as well as America. We eat better, and have lots of other stuff.

Originally posted by normbenign
Businesses don't exist to give jobs, good or bad to workers. People invest time, money, ideas, property in creating businesses, and in the process they provide work to others, who choose to work or not.

If machines do the work faster or more accurately than people, so much the better. The consumer, who are people, benefit. Around the turn of the 20th ...[text shortened]... a lot of the rest of the world as well as America. We eat better, and have lots of other stuff.

Those that work for a fair wage become the consumer and may be better off, but it is only logical that the more mechanized we become the more the disenfranchised grow. productivity can ONLY serve humanity if the benefits are also shared with those that we obscenely call bludgers. picture a workforce of 10,000 getting more and more productive. Lets say (for arguments sake) that they are all devoted workers. the logical extension of that dedication is that maybe 100 lose their jobs 1 year,100 the next and so on ad-infinitum.What was the point is caring in the 1st place. the dedicated workers now get labeled a dole bludger. What the?? People often do not CHOOSE to work or not. often they even work 2-3 jobs just to get by. People often need to work to feel as though they are a part of society and as machines take over that is often a bad thing. Not always.

Originally posted by normbenign
Businesses don't exist to give jobs, good or bad to workers. People invest time, money, ideas, property in creating businesses, and in the process they provide work to others, who choose to work or not.

If machines do the work faster or more accurately than people, so much the better. The consumer, who are people, benefit. Around the turn of the 20th ...[text shortened]... a lot of the rest of the world as well as America. We eat better, and have lots of other stuff.

"The consumer, who are people, benefit."

Not really. Any lower costs are stolen by the FRS by increasing the money supply. They fight against deflation, remember? Anything that drops in price contributes to overall deflation. In the end, central banks steal your price drops. That is why outsourcing did the same thing. It was just an opportunity for the FRS to proliferate their legal counterfeiting scam.

Now you see lower prices and now you don't. It will always happen that way until people see the FRS for the corrupt bitch she is.

Originally posted by jimmac
replacing humanity with machines to keep the profits up,you mean.?
Please share with me what part of your post included humanity, because that is what we are all a part of. Demanding your fair share, or as you put it,MORE, does not necessarily equate with lazy. Why draw that conclusion.? The areas that the money gets put back into in multinationals i ...[text shortened]... t profit is the unearned, though not necessarily undeserved, portion of a financial transaction.

Well who are you to tell anyone what they "should do" with their own?
Profits are the life blood of a business you lose that your done!
You sign a dotted line to work for X no matter what that is, that is what you agreed too.
If you want more, make yourself more important to the company you work for or get
another job! Demanding you want more of someone else's money isn't going to get you
far, it will however get your employer looking for a means to replace you.
If you think a business should be more socially responsible, start one and do it the way
you think it should be ran.
I don't care what your views on profit are!

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well who are you to tell anyone what they "should do" with their own?
Profits are the life blood of a business you lose that your done!
You sign a dotted line to work for X no matter what that is, that is what you agreed too.
If you want more, make yourself more important to the company you work for or get
another job! Demanding you want more of someone ...[text shortened]... one and do it the way
you think it should be ran.
I don't care what your views on profit are!

Did you ever get the feeling that your pay was related to how "important" your employer felt you were?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Did you ever get the feeling that your pay was related to how "important" your employer felt you were?

Yes

Originally posted by jimmac
Those that work for a fair wage become the consumer and may be better off, but it is only logical that the more mechanized we become the more the disenfranchised grow. productivity can ONLY serve humanity if the benefits are also shared with those that we obscenely call bludgers. picture a workforce of 10,000 getting more and more productive. Lets say (for ar ...[text shortened]... ough they are a part of society and as machines take over that is often a bad thing. Not always.

Those that work for a fair wage become the consumer and may be better off,...

Fair is what people agree to without coercive force.

but it is only logical that the more mechanized we become the more the disenfranchised grow.

Not really. Income in dollars is not the only way to measure well being. As a nation, and as a world we are better fed than a century ago. In just the last few decades, technology has made lots of articles that weren't even thought of, available to average consumers. Necessities like food and shelter take less of a percentage of our income for most people. If some are disenfranchised by overall growth and prosperity, it may be at least partly their own fault.

.....those that we obscenely call bludgers.

I'm not familiar with the term, but it does carry a negative vibe.

People often do not CHOOSE to work or not. often they even work 2-3 jobs just to get by.

In the early '90s I found myself in just that situation, after attempting to find my way in the job market. Nothing paid as well as my self employment (in previous years), so I was forced to backtrack, after substantial savings, and preparation. I had gone to college in my 40s during the '80s, but had no degree or certification. My formal education did however pay off when I returned to self employment. I never felt or acted disenfranchised.

One thing is certain, progress is inevitable, and we can go along, or get run over by it. I don't view people in hard times as "bludgers", unless they give up and determine to stay there. No system can guarantee a good life for everyone, nor should it. Success and hard work should be rewarded, and lack of preparation and carelessness about the future punished. Overall, more people benefit from advances in technology, specialization in work, etc. than are harmed by those things.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
"The consumer, who are people, benefit."

Not really. Any lower costs are stolen by the FRS by increasing the money supply. They fight against deflation, remember? Anything that drops in price contributes to overall deflation. In the end, central banks steal your price drops. That is why outsourcing did the same thing. It was just an opportunity for th ...[text shortened]... you don't. It will always happen that way until people see the FRS for the corrupt bitch she is.

There is little doubt, no, no doubt, that fiat money and planned inflation harm all people, especially those inclined to save, instead of spend everything. Of course it also harms those struggling at the edge of subsistence.

People seeking to improve their lot, must consider that just getting a raise to keep up isn't an improvement. This is a problem of government, by government and for government.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well who are you to tell anyone what they "should do" with their own?
Profits are the life blood of a business you lose that your done!
You sign a dotted line to work for X no matter what that is, that is what you agreed too.
If you want more, make yourself more important to the company you work for or get
another job! Demanding you want more of someone ...[text shortened]... one and do it the way
you think it should be ran.
I don't care what your views on profit are!

Sorry if I am not getting my point across,
Profits, and good profits, are necessary, Yet obscene profits are bad, and how they are achieved. People have to work( usually) to live a reasonable standard of living.A sustenance income is by default put back into the system. More income = more back into the system.You get more winners that way. I DO understand that some businesses cannot afford to pay a fair wage, esp a small one or one running at a loss, The multinationals are run by people that are rewarded for the amount of pain that they cause and pay the "boys" massive pays regardless of outcomes. They have NOTHING to lose if things go bad except that they MAY not get as big a bonus. The more workers that they disenfranchise, the more they get paid.That is plain to see. and NOTHING is fair about that. I sign x on the dotted line because I have no choice, or at least many do not. You know, sign or starve. That MUST be obvious. That you was able to rise above the mire does not mean that everyone can. The system is guaranteeing that many wont. That is the only end result of productivity not shared fairly. By making yourself more useful I take it to mean help them to lay of other workers by being more efficient. (lol sarcasm).
Belonging to a system that enabled you to make a profit obliges one to repay the debt. You only make a profit because of the people around you.Obviously that's not all but without them you make nothing.
I do care what your views are. And I feel that these discussions needs to happen more.

Originally posted by normbenign
[b]Those that work for a fair wage become the consumer and may be better off,...



but it is only logical that the more mechanized we become the more the disenfranchised grow.

Not really. Income in dollars is not the only way to measure well being. As a nation, and as a world we are better fed than a century ago. In just the last few d ...[text shortened]... nefit from advances in technology, specialization in work, etc. than are harmed by those things.[/b]

quote 1/ Fair is what people agree to without coercive force.

is not the threat of starvation or the possibility of losing your house etc not coercive enough for you.

quote 2/ Not really. Income in dollars is not the only way to measure well being. As a nation, and as a world we are better fed than a century ago. In just the last few decades, technology has made lots of articles that weren't even thought of, available to average consumers. Necessities like food and shelter take less of a percentage of our income for most people. If some are disenfranchised by overall growth and prosperity, it may be at least partly their own fault.

this feels right and yet I feel that you are missing the point. Yes the "average" consumer( what/whoever that may be) may be better off, yet? I am not sure how much better off they could be. without hurting those at the bottom.When you refer to MOST people, I am not sure that that should not include those that are worse of.
The dole bludger is someone that has worked so hard and dedicatedly to a company that they have made themselves redundant. One day a hard worker,the next lazy. go figure. We judge people so quickly.
Many people are already getting run over by progress.But we should not try and stop it, but control it.
When we walk the streets we see those that are better off, That is what we see. But that can hide a lot of awful truths about how much suffering there is in a society that has, at one level, become better, faster, etc,etc. but with a stuff you attitude to those than can/will/not keep up. even those that are unable. We seem to have a sympathy do the physically disabled and yet there are millions mentally incapable and then the 10s of millions in between.

Originally posted by jimmac
Sorry if I am not getting my point across,
Profits, and good profits, are necessary, Yet obscene profits are bad, and how they are achieved. People have to work( usually) to live a reasonable standard of living.A sustenance income is by default put back into the system. More income = more back into the system.You get more winners that way. I DO understan ...[text shortened]... thing.
I do care what your views are. And I feel that these discussions needs to happen more.

I fail to see the difference between profits and obscene profits! Good for anyone who can
make a lot of money legally with low cost and effort!

I go back to who are you to tell someone else what they "should do" with the money
we now agree is earned through legal means! Anyone who is smart will be putting money
back into the system, but the world does not revolve around 'being smart'. My only rule
that I think we need to concern ourselves with is keeping the playing field level, meaning
no one should be forced to stay out of business, everyone plays by the same rules so
that no one has an advantage that keeps them on top. You wanting to force someone
to put their money where you think they need to is not freedom to do what you will with
your own, therefore I reject it.

Workers want better wages find someone who will pay them more, better themselves,
start their own business. If you sign on the dotted line you've agreed to work for what
they are paying and now that you have a job you want to force them into giving you
more! Go get a guy and stand in the dark and rob people its the same thing.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I fail to see the difference between profits and obscene profits! Good for anyone who can
make a lot of money legally with low cost and effort!

I go back to who are you to tell someone else what they "should do" with the money
we now agree is earned through legal means! Anyone who is smart will be putting money
back into the system, but the world does ...[text shortened]... hem into giving you
more! Go get a guy and stand in the dark and rob people its the same thing.

Yes, negotiating better wages is basically the same thing as robbing people.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Yes, negotiating better wages is basically the same thing as robbing people.

No you can negotiate whatever you can get, demand or force is another thing.