09 May 14
3 edits
House Republicans were suprised this week, and no doubt a bit steamed to learn that Obamacare is working. Millions of people who had no healthcare coverage, now do (and growing), the vast majority of people who've signed up are paying their premiums on time, and the new law has not led to a government takeover of the healthcare industry. The affordable care act is continuing to grow in popularity and support despite GOP led stories about death panels, mass unemployment, and economic ruin due to the new law. Since the GOP is now looking pretty silly on Obamacare, they've now shifted their attack to Benghazi, and ordered a new house probe on the topic (convieniently timed for the mid term elections) Politics in America...ain't it grand?!😏
http://theweek.com/article/index/261245/obamacare-is-working--and-the-gop-is-shifting-its-attack
Originally posted by bill718I was watching a documentary yesterday on the Tea Party and it was rife with what I can only describe as a plethora of insipid platitudes to the extent that i really wondered, who actually believes this kind of rhetoric and I was forced to conclude that it was not on the basis of rationality, but was entirely emotional.
House Republicans were suprised this week, and no doubt a bit steamed to learn that Obamacare is working. Millions of people who had no healthcare coverage, now do (and growing), the vast majority of people who've signed up are paying their premiums on time, and the new law has not led to a government takeover of the healthcare industry. The affordable care ...[text shortened]... http://theweek.com/article/index/261245/obamacare-is-working--and-the-gop-is-shifting-its-attack
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSomething like the way you blokes get moist undies over obuma care. That's not reason, it's not even emotion, it's something more base, akin to instinct.
I was watching a documentary yesterday on the Tea Party and it was rife with what I can only describe as a plethora of insipid platitudes to the extent that i really wondered, who actually believes this kind of rhetoric and I was forced to conclude that it was not on the basis of rationality, but was entirely emotional.
Originally posted by Wajomadont be silly, we are subject to all kinds of laws that dont force us to do anything and in fact are there for our benefit, for example the laws of aerodynamics, or the law of gravity. The argument that if obamacare was rational it wouldn't need force to enforce it is ludicrous. Driving your car at sixty miles an hour in a built up area would according to your definition be irrational, simply because its not voluntary if the speed limit forces you to drive at thirty
Laws are backed by force and the threat of force. If obumacare was a rational choice you wouldn't need force and threats of force to make it happen, it would be voluntary.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou're being silly bringing laws of physics into this discussion because obuma didn't make thos laws, nobody did. They exist independently of guvamints and man.
dont be silly, we are subject to all kinds of laws that dont force us to do anything and in fact are there for our benefit, for example the laws of aerodynamics, or the law of gravity. The argument that if obamacare was rational it wouldn't need force to enforce it is ludicrous. Driving your car at sixty miles an hour in a built up area would accor ...[text shortened]... be irrational, simply because its not voluntary in the speed limit forces you to drive at thirty
As for laws regarding things like murder and robbery and such. Those are laws against the initiation of force. State mandated healthcare is not there to defend the individual against the intitiation of force it is the initiation of force and threats of force.
As for speeding that can be defined as an objective threat and rightfully be policed. But again no parallel can be drawn between speeding laws and state mandated healthcare.
Try again robbie, because if there is a rationale at work here it's you saying to hell with the other guys rationale for choosing not to partake in obumacare you're going to force him. Is that you robbie? Can't let the other guy alone? Can't let him make his own deciscions regarding how he looks after his body? View yourself as some kind of superior being?
Originally posted by Wajomanow you are descending into fiction, its actually quite amusing to watch. We are forced to comply with all kinds of laws for our benefit, driving with seat belts, driving with due care and attention, driving while not under the influence of alcohol, driving with a car that is fit for the road, driving within the speed limit etc etc which one of these elements is it irrational to force upon the poor unsuspecting boy racer that wants to drive at eighty miles an hour in a built up area out of his face on cocaine? will he cry as you do, but i am an individual, you cannot force me to comply with laws, why cant you let the other guy alone to drive his car as he sees fit, its irrational to force me to comply with your laws!
You're being silly bringing laws of physics into this discussion because obuma didn't make thos laws, nobody did. They exist independently of guvamints and man.
As for laws regarding things like murder and robbery and such. Those are laws against the initiation of force. State mandated healthcare is not there to defend the individual against the intiti ...[text shortened]... deciscions regarding how he looks after his body? View yourself as some kind of superior being?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLet's work through it then to find out what is fiction.
now you are descending into fiction, its actually quite amusing to watch.
Does guvamint make the laws of physics, do they vote on the speed of sound and change that speed on a whim? Can any man change the laws of physics to suit himself or garner votes?
Therefore - Can laws of physics be compared with laws forcing you to purchase healthcare?
It's a yes or no robbie, but by all means expand on your answer if it is 'yes'.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhoah the big post posting edit.
now you are descending into fiction, its actually quite amusing to watch. We are forced to comply with all kinds of laws for our benefit, driving with seat belts, driving with due care and attention, driving while not under the influence of alcohol, driving with a car that is fit for the road, driving within the speed limit etc etc which one of thes ...[text shortened]... guy alone to drive his car as he sees fit, its irrational to force me to comply with your laws!
I explained that already, most of those things apart form seatbelts can be said to be an objective threat to fellow road users. Me not wanting to be part of your wet dream healthcare system is not a threat to you or anybody.
Originally posted by Wajomait was an analogy to demonstrate that we benefit from laws which force us to comply with them, the source of those laws is irrelevant.
Let's work through it then to find out what is fiction.
Does guvamint make the laws of physics, do they vote on the speed of sound and change that speed on a whim? Can any man change the laws of physics to suit himself or garner votes?
Therefore - Can laws of physics be compared with laws forcing you to purchase healthcare?
It's a yes or no robbie, but by all means expand on your answer if it is 'yes'.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYeah and I'm calling 'analogy fail' I'm calling 'analogy fiction', the only thing they have in common is the letters l a w s, There are plenty of physical laws we do not benefit from, we can't vote on them, we can't change them, a more apt descriptor would be physical facts not physical laws.
it was an analogy to demonstrate that we benefit from laws which force us to comply with them, the source of those laws is irrelevant.