Should people be FIRST loyal to their religion, then their country of residence or the other way around?
What does the resident country provide? Food, shelter, etc.
What does religion provide? Good conscience, emotional well being (not always), etc.
Which is more important, if either?
If one does not like their religion they can always get out. If one does not like the country they are living they can also get out (some more easily than others).
Originally posted by sword4damoclesSuppose the Aztec religion were still believed in and practiced, would it be sensibl for Aztecs to be allowed to settle here and practice their religion?
Should people be FIRST loyal to their religion, then their country of residence or the other way around?
What does the resident country provide? Food, shelter, etc.
What does religion provide? Good conscience, emotional well being (not always), etc.
Which is more important, if either?
If one does not like their religion they can always ...[text shortened]... does not like the country they are living they can also get out (some more easily than others).
After all, it was no more insane than that advocated by the fanatical Islamic clergy here and elsewhere in the world.
Originally posted by PhilodorAztec religiosity is still in practice
Suppose the Aztec religion were still believed in and practiced, would it be sensibl for Aztecs to be allowed to settle here and practice their religion?
After all, it was no more insane than that advocated by the fanatical Islamic clergy here and elsewhere in the world.
Originally posted by sword4damoclesYou should widen the subject a bit by including ideologies such as socialism, liberalism, anarchism, greenism and evolutionism. Why restricting the issue to religion ?
Should people be FIRST loyal to their religion, then their country of residence or the other way around?
What does the resident country provide? Food, shelter, etc.
What does religion provide? Good conscience, emotional well being (not always), etc.
Which is more important, if either?
If one does not like their religion they can always ...[text shortened]... does not like the country they are living they can also get out (some more easily than others).
Originally posted by SALADINNow.jackass, you clearly kow nothing of the Aztec sacrificial rites.Makes entertaining reading in Prescott's 'Conquest of Mexico', for example.
seutse... you should know by now that Philly has no idiea what his is talking about half the time😀😀
Originally posted by PhilodorI don't think anyone today are still kicking around human skulls after sacrifice, or was that the Mayans?
Really? Daily human sacrifices to Huizilopochtli? Must provixde a great publc spectacle which couls well appeal to the Iranian Supreme Court.
But who knows!
Should people be FIRST loyal to their religion, then their country of residence or the other way around?
Well I believe the one defining thing that all humanity has in common is that we are all residents of this small blue green planet third from the sun. You can be any religion and any nationality we should all help our fellow man when he is in need, and that help should be offered unconditionally.*
*This is a really bizarre statement for me to make because I am an Aetheist and find that whilst all religions preach this doctarine none of them behave like it. Yet all my closest friends who are not religious are more tolerant than those who are. weird?
What does religion provide? Good conscience, emotional well being (not always), etc.
Religion I believe provides a structure to live by which is maintained and enforced on a population through a fear innate to Man that of the awareness of his own mortality. Man is aware he will die and needs both a reason to live and a reason to live by the structure of society, that was supplied in the past by the priests and the doctarin of the many religions who controlled the masses. The masses are given the choice of conformity and reward (Heaven) or free will and Hell. Religion gives people peace of mind it removes the unknown and fills it with faith and belief. Faith that there is a higher purpose and belief that they will be rewarded after Death.
What does the resident country provide? Food, shelter, etc.
Whenever Man forms structured living groups it is advantageous to povide as wide a bredth of diversity as possible in order to give him the best chance of survival. We should always help those who are less adept than ourselves, and those who are our neighbours may need the most help and those who form the society we live in and take advantage of the services which it provides are due both our respect, consideration and help in kind.
Which is more important, if either?
Both are irrelevant creations of Man. If someone is in need should you really ask what nationality they are or what religion they are, I'd just help them. (Unless they were Welsh)
Race / Religion / Nationalities all these things are classes and subclasses that we have created in order to divide us and demonstrate how different we are, but honestly think about the people who did it and why. I return to my initial point there is more that we have in common, across nationality and religion than can ever divide us. We just have to look to each other rather than away.
Asserting that Aztec religiosity is part of history just because no more
human sacrifices are held, is like saying Catholicism is part of history
because the inquisition is not performed anymore (at least the way it
used to be).
No offense taken. I don't practice Aztec religiosity. yet I wanted to
point out that many of the Aztec religious practices are still held
in the ancient site of the culture's heart.
Originally posted by kcamsI asked "what time is it" not how to build a watch. 😉 Nice speech though.
Should people be FIRST loyal to their religion, then their country of residence or the other way around?
Well I believe the one defining thing that all humanity has in common is that we are all residents of this small blue green planet third from the sun. You can be any religion and any nationality we should all help our fellow man when he is in need, and t ...[text shortened]... lity and religion than can ever divide us. We just have to look to each other rather than away.
What prompted me to post this thread was that recently a group made the statement that they are Muslim FIRST and British Citizens second.
Does this sort of justification of loyalty give them or any other group the addid right to commit acts of terror? It seems that they are using it as another excuse to show how religious hatred is stronger than love or national loyalty with respect to one's citizenship.
What does this sort of profession of loyalty really mean?
Originally posted by sword4damoclesUnless in a theocratic State, people should know that the limit to own rights is other people's equal rights. Moreover, religious freedom is guaranteed by a State which may take us to conclude the State is the measure of the freedoms and as long as the State guarantees those freedoms the State is fair. Ergo, the State starts when the religion ends and the religion ends where other people's beliefs starts.
I asked "what time is it" not how to build a watch. 😉 Nice speech though.
What prompted me to post this thread was that recently a group made the statement that they are Muslim FIRST and British Citizens second.
Does this sort of justification of loyalty give them or any other group the addid right to commit acts of terror? It seems that th ...[text shortened]... th respect to one's citizenship.
What does this sort of profession of loyalty really mean?
Originally posted by SeitseI want some of your valium! 😛
Unless in a theocratic State, people should know that the limit to own rights is other people's equal rights. Moreover, religious freedom is guaranteed by a State which may take us to conclude the State is the measure of the freedoms and as long as the State guarantees those freedoms the State is fair. Ergo, the State starts when the religion ends and the religion ends where other people's beliefs starts.
Originally posted by SeitseGood point. I think many religions have shed some of their former skin. And yet, some have not.
Asserting that Aztec religiosity is part of history just because no more
human sacrifices are held, is like saying Catholicism is part of history
because the inquisition is not performed anymore (at least the way it
used to be).
No offense taken. I don't practice Aztec religiosity. yet I wanted to
point out that many of the Aztec religious practices are still held
in the ancient site of the culture's heart.
Originally posted by sword4damoclesI thought the general Idea of a debat forum was to put forward an arguement and justify it with reasoning?
I asked "what time is it" not how to build a watch. 😉 Nice speech though.
What prompted me to post this thread was that recently a group made the statement that they are Muslim FIRST and British Citizens second.
Does this sort of justification of loyalty give them or any other group the addid right to commit acts of terror? It seems that th ...[text shortened]... th respect to one's citizenship.
What does this sort of profession of loyalty really mean?
and to answer your specific point, those who claim to the higher purpose of a religion before the state but advocate acts against their religion (NO RELIGION ADVOCATES ACTS OF TERRORISM theres a reason why they are called fundamentalists, they taken an extreme interpretation and a hardline without really understanding the religion as a whole) kind of miss the point of their religion, and do nothing to further their cause and so will end up shooting their religion in the foot.
NOTHING justifies acts of terrorism, and all terrorists are cowards who aren't strong enough to fight the good fight like Ghandi!!!!! Defeated the largest Empire in history with throwing a punch.