08 Jun 05
Originally posted by Delmer
Stang, I am absolutely in favor of the USA staying out of all foreign involvement. Close the bases and bring the troops home. Cut off trade. Send the legals and ilegals home. The USA should have stayed out of WWI and WWII. Let Europe, Asia, Africa, The Middle East and the Pacific Island nations burn until the fires go out for lack of fuel. But as soon as American boots hit the ground I back them period, no matter what.
send legals 'home'?
what could you mean by this?
08 Jun 05
Originally posted by AmauroteI'd prefer to call it an "independent economy" rather than a "siege economy." I see no reason why a country with the size, geography and the diversity of the USA could not produce everything it needs to provide all of its citizen with a decent and fulfiling lifestyle. And I see no reason why the USA alone could not adequately defend its borders. Depending upon one's definition, the demise of consumer capitalism is long overdue.
I'd quite like to see the USA attempt a siege economy: it could work with certain caveats, one of them being the demise of consumer capitalism.
08 Jun 05
Originally posted by DelmerI agree, I think the USA would make an excellent socialist nation if it could hold its nose long enough. It's about time the West in general and the USA in particular stopped drawing from the global savings pool, the implications are pretty horrible for even the most hardened and decadent proponent of consumer terror. Of course, this would inevitably create a global redistribution of wealth, but the vast majority of working-class and lower middle-class Americans would inhabit a better world.
I'd prefer to call it an "independent economy" rather than a "siege economy." I see no reason why a country with the size, geography and the diversity of the USA could not produce everything it needs to provide all of its citizen with a decent and fulfiling lifestyle. And I see no reason why the USA alone could not adequately defend its borders. Depending upon one's definition, the demise of consumer capitalism is long overdue.
08 Jun 05
Originally posted by STANGI'll try, Stang, but you won't understand. As a self-appointed critic, feel free to criticize the elected officials. Feel free to criticize the Joint Chiefs of Staff, those positions are almost as political as the elected and appointed officials above them. But give it some thought before you criticize the troops in harm's way. Even in peacetime the military is an extreme environment. And in a combat theater it becomes even more extreme and extreme things happen. I, for one, will not sit comfortably at home and, with no first hand information, judge and/or criticize the actions of those in harm's way.
Try me ... and other's who would be interested.
08 Jun 05
Originally posted by AmauroteWell, I don't remember advocating socialism, just independence for country and citizens alike. Sever the foreign entanglements.
I agree, I think the USA would make an excellent socialist nation if it could hold its nose long enough. It's about time the West in general and the USA in particular stopped drawing from the global savings pool, the implications are pretty horrible for even the most hardened and decadent proponent of consumer terror. Of course, this would inevitably creat ...[text shortened]... he vast majority of working-class and lower middle-class Americans would inhabit a better world.
08 Jun 05
Originally posted by DelmerHmmm, yes, but the West and the USA is hugely dependent on foreign credit, not to mention fossil fuels - any siege economy is posited on a combination of managed supply and managed demand (i.e. you have necessary and unnecessary needs, to adopt dreadful terminology of Stoicism). You don't actually require a Soviet Socialist America for this, but it would have far more in common with the USSR than with the nation-state that it is now - the vision may look High Tory, but the economic and political reality would be very different. Like I say, roll on that wonderful day.
Well, I don't remember advocating socialism, just independence for country and citizens alike. Sever the foreign entanglements.
08 Jun 05
Originally posted by AmauroteIn that case I guess it's way past time that we seriously begin becoming independent of foreign credit and fossil fuels.
Hmmm, yes, but the West and the USA is hugely dependent on foreign credit, not to mention fossil fuels - any siege economy is posited on a combination of managed supply and managed demand (i.e. you have necessary and unnecessary needs, to adopt dreadful terminology of Stoicism). You don't actually require a Soviet Socialist America for this, but it would h ...[text shortened]... economic and political reality would be very different. Like I say, roll on that wonderful day.
08 Jun 05
Originally posted by DelmerI'm sick of people dismissing protests about killings as "political". Both the politicians and soldiers are accountable. In the case of Iraq, there are at least 24000 dead (though possibly as much as 100000). What other "first hand information" do you need and what are you doing to have Bush investigated ?
I'll try, Stang, but you won't understand. As a self-appointed critic, feel free to criticize the elected officials. Feel free to criticize the Joint Chiefs of Staff, those positions are almost as political as the elected and appointed officials above them. But give it some thought before you criticize the troops in harm's way. Even in peacetime the milita ...[text shortened]... nd, with no first hand information, judge and/or criticize the actions of those in harm's way.
08 Jun 05
Originally posted by STANGSee, Stang, I told you that you wouldn't understand. And what first hand information do you have? If you feel so strongly about it then go to Iraq and do something useful. Become a martyr in the cause of world peace. Stop using secondhand pictures and secondhand words. Take some pictures of your own. Write some words of your own. Give us a personal, first hand account.
I'm sick of people dismissing protests about killings as "political". Both the politicians and soldiers are accountable. In the case of Iraq, there are at least 24000 dead (though possibly as much as 100000). What other "first hand information" do you need and what are you doing to have Bush investigated ?