04 Mar 14
Originally posted by Eladar"Prices are a scam. Doctors do volunteer work as well as completely writing off debts."
Prices are a scam. Doctors do volunteer work as well as completely writing off debts.
Funny that you bring up cancer when the waiting rates for Socialized medicine means that people in those countries suffer more complications and death from cancer than the US.
yes, because unlike you, doctors deal with insurance companies everyday and they know how downright evil greedy little asholes they are. so they try to work around the deeply flawed system
"Funny that you bring up cancer when the waiting rates for Socialized medicine means that people in those countries suffer more complications and death from cancer than the US"
according to who? waiting rates what? what countries? common lassie, i know you have something to back your claim (whatever that claim is). should i guess what you are trying to say?
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by Eladarstudy from 2000. this is 2014
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-102962/Deadly-wait-cancer-treatment.html
nothing to do with socialized healthcare.
daily mail link, no references posted to verify.
one country given as example, even this article says other european countries (also with socialized healthcare ) do much better
if the socialized health care turns into private, some people wait how much less time? how many people would wait indefinetely because they cannot afford the insurance?
in short, worthless link and not supportive of your point at all. nobody says one cannot get better health care if enough money are thrown in the right directions. we are talking about regular people who cannot afford to go to a private clinic. for them, the uk had 6 weeks waiting periods in 2000 according to your article. how much waiting time does an uninsured cancer
patient have in the US? what is the cost?
05 Mar 14
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649
that one was from 2009
Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.[1] Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/11/16/what-world-doesnt-know-about-health-care-in-america/
England’s 2010 “NHS Constitution” declared that no patient should wait beyond 18 weeks for treatment (after GP referral). Even given this long leash, the number of patients not being treated within that time soared by 43% to almost 30,000 in January. BBC subsequently discovered that many patients initially assessed as needing surgery were later re-categorized by the hospital trust and removed from waiting lists. Royal College of Surgeons President Norman Williams, calling this “outrageous,” charged that hospitals are cutting their waiting lists by simply raising thresholds.
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by ZahlanziHow do you like, "I've been poor all my life, and don't believe I'm entitled to what anyone else has."
i would love to hear arguments on that.
how about "poor people are lazy bums. if only they would work as hard as me"
or "everyone can have his/her dream come true, you just have to keep trying"
or "health trickles down, bro, just be patient"
or "500k a year might sound much, but it is really hard to live on that"
or my favorite: "I never got help from anyone, why do YOU ask for help"
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by ZahlanziA problem with some outsiders is that they see supposed problems they want fixed that they would never have to pay for.
i am asking how medicaid worked for americans in general. not for you.
this is the very problem with some americans: you think that everything is about you individually.
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by ZahlanziI don't know about cancer, but I had cataract surgery in Canada, a good doctor who advertised extensively in the US. His Canadian, Ontario Care patients had to wait six months plus to have the same surgery that I scheduled for the following week.
"Prices are a scam. Doctors do volunteer work as well as completely writing off debts."
yes, because unlike you, doctors deal with insurance companies everyday and they know how downright evil greedy little asholes they are. so they try to work around the deeply flawed system
"Funny that you bring up cancer when the waiting rates for Socialized medi ...[text shortened]... mething to back your claim (whatever that claim is). should i guess what you are trying to say?
You may say, but cataract surgery isn't cancer. No it isn't, but I could not longer drive and work due to impaired vision. Do you have any idea what six months off costs even poor people?
08 Mar 14
Originally posted by normbenigntranslation:
How do you like, "I've been poor all my life, and don't believe I'm entitled to what anyone else has."
i have been poor all my life, and the government would use the taxes they already take from other people to buy new tanks rather than cure the crippling illness i suffer from because of which i can't get a job.
08 Mar 14
Originally posted by normbenign"Do you have any idea what six months off costs even poor people?"
I don't know about cancer, but I had cataract surgery in Canada, a good doctor who advertised extensively in the US. His Canadian, Ontario Care patients had to wait six months plus to have the same surgery that I scheduled for the following week.
You may say, but cataract surgery isn't cancer. No it isn't, but I could not longer drive and work due to impaired vision. Do you have any idea what six months off costs even poor people?
you really don't see it, do you? (no pun intended) you had the freakin money, so you paid for the surgery. right then. other canadians would have had to wait 6 months. other americans not covered by whatever medical insurance they had (or didn't had) would have had to not eat or pay bills for 6 months.
it is also interesting that you went to canada to have a surgery. could it be that it was cheaper than anything american near you?
we are not discussing whether socialized health care is better than private health. of course it bloody isn't to various degrees depending on how much money you have and want to spend.
we are discussing whether socialized health is better than no freakin healthcare at all, or whatever joke of a system you had before obamacare (which i hear is still worse than what other countries have)
10 Mar 14
Originally posted by Zahlanzi"you had the freakin money, so you paid for the surgery. right then."
"Do you have any idea what six months off costs even poor people?"
you really don't see it, do you? (no pun intended) you had the freakin money, so you paid for the surgery. right then. other canadians would have had to wait 6 months. other americans not covered by whatever medical insurance they had (or didn't had) would have had to not eat or pay bil ...[text shortened]... a system you had before obamacare (which i hear is still worse than what other countries have)
I had the money because I denied myself stuff, and saved an emergency fund. It's called taking responsibility.
10 Mar 14
2 edits
Originally posted by normbenign"It's called taking responsibility"
"you had the freakin money, so you paid for the surgery. right then."
I had the money because I denied myself stuff, and saved an emergency fund. It's called taking responsibility.
yes. and you saying that means you automatically imply that anyone who doesn't have an emergency fund is not responsible. maybe they are lazy.
which is unbelievably offensive
you believe working hard is enough. that the garbage man working from 5 AM is just not working hard enough, otherwise he too would have a house/car/health coverage.
the mother working 3 shifts to feed her children is actually a lazy bum.
no, pookie. sometimes, hard work is not enough and anyone who says differently is stupid. sometimes, you must have good luck to land a good job, to have a certain skill that people would pay money for, to be born in a certain age. we have football players like messi being paid millions of dollars. he is working hard, no doubt, it is a pleasure to watch him at work. and we have the janitor that keeps your workplace safe and clean, and nobody pays him millions.
what would have happened to him if messi had been born 100 years ago?
11 Mar 14
Originally posted by ZahlanziSometimes hard work isn't enough, this is true. Sometimes people work the system and this is true.
"It's called taking responsibility"
yes. and you saying that means you automatically imply that anyone who doesn't have an emergency fund is not responsible. maybe they are lazy.
which is unbelievably offensive
you believe working hard is enough. that the garbage man working from 5 AM is just not working hard enough, otherwise he too would have a ho ...[text shortened]... ody pays him millions.
what would have happened to him if messi had been born 100 years ago?
We can't afford to pay for both the hard workers who need extra help and the people who work the system. This is also true. Anyone who would deny this is either a moron or a liar.
11 Mar 14
Originally posted by EladarWe who? Ethiopia? somalia? sudan?
Sometimes hard work isn't enough, this is true. Sometimes people work the system and this is true.
We can't afford to pay for both the hard workers who need extra help and the people who work the system. This is also true. Anyone who would deny this is either a moron or a liar.
because i know you didn't just say the US, with a multi billion dollar military budget, can't afford a health care system.
poor americans. so impoverished. so sad. they just cannot find the money to fund fund healthcare. it is just impossible to reduce their military budget by 5%.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/07/everything-chuck-hagel-needs-to-know-about-the-defense-budget-in-charts/
Since 2001, the base defense budget has soared from $287 billion to $530 billion — and that's before accounting for the primary costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
where can we get the money to keep americans alive and healthy? spend less money on making other people dead? Inconceivable!!
11 Mar 14
Originally posted by ZahlanziWhen I say we, I mean any country, including the US. Talk to me about how the US can afford to be a nanny state after we have paid off our debt.
We who? Ethiopia? somalia? sudan?
because i know you didn't just say the US, with a multi billion dollar military budget, can't afford a health care system.
poor americans. so impoverished. so sad. they just cannot find the money to fund fund healthcare. it is just impossible to reduce their military budget by 5%.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/b ...[text shortened]... keep americans alive and healthy? spend less money on making other people dead? Inconceivable!!