Resource driven economy (Jacque Fresco)

Originally posted by Jigtie

I'm a bit sceptical about that "no crime"-part myself (considering the myriad of crimes
based on other factors than purely economical or social desperation)

Well, the problem is not just that there would still be crime, the problem is that crime would be rampant. Well, without laws it technically wouldn't be crime, of course, but you get my drift.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
...the problem is that crime would be rampant...

No, I disagree. You're speculating. Read my edit to the post you quoted.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
So why would anyone work or invest?

If by "invest" you're thinking about putting some kind of private capital into a project, investing is
also a non-existent factor in a resource based economy. Work? People would work only as much as
they have to to produce the resources required to sustain us all. It would require less work per
person, than producing all your resources for yourself.

If by work, you mean scientific research or art or anything else not essential to our survival, I'm
guessing people will keep doing these things from their curiosity and need to express themselves.

Originally posted by Jigtie
If by "invest" you're thinking about putting some kind of private capital into a project, investing is
also a non-existent factor in a resource based economy. Work? People would work only as much as
they have to to produce the resources required to sustain us all. It would require less work per
person, than producing all your resources for yourself.

...[text shortened]... ing people will keep doing these things from their curiosity and need to express themselves.

So what is the incentive to work? Just for the heck of it?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
So what is the incentive to work? Just for the heck of it?

Help me define the type of "work" first.

1) The tasks required to produce the essentials (food, homes, infrastructure, clean water...), and
2) anything with a produced result not essential to our survival (art, science, music, technological advancements and so on)

On the first, people will have the incentive to work simply because these are required things. They
will die if they don't work as they won't have access to these essentials. On the second, I'm
thinking the incentive is more along the lines of enjoyment or having needs. I'm curious about
how everything works and I enjoy seeking the answers scientifically. I have a need to write, to
express my thoughts, experiences and feelings. I have solutions to given problems and I'd like to
see if they will work. You get the idea.

Originally posted by Jigtie
Help me define the type of "work" first.

1) The tasks required to produce the essentials (food, homes, infrastructure, clean water...), and
2) anything with a produced result not essential to our survival (art, science, music, technological advancements and so on)

On the first, people will have the incentive to work simply because these are required th ...[text shortened]... ve solutions to given problems and I'd like to
see if they will work. You get the idea.

How are freeloaders punished?

Originally posted by duecer
labor is the #1 natural resource.

Nicely put duecer, and it is only capitalism that recognises you are a property unto yourself. That no other person has a higher claim on you, not rwingett, not kmax, not Redmoke.

Capitalism rests on the principle: You are the owner of your own life.

Originally posted by Jigtie
Help me define the type of "work" first.

1) The tasks required to produce the essentials (food, homes, infrastructure, clean water...), and
2) anything with a produced result not essential to our survival (art, science, music, technological advancements and so on)

On the first, people will have the incentive to work simply because these are required th ...[text shortened]... ve solutions to given problems and I'd like to
see if they will work. You get the idea.

You enjoy thousands of technological advances everyday. If you were true to your principles you would renounce all things that have been developed as a result of the desire for people to improve their lives i.e. profit.

But the true colours are shining through now, it's nothing to do with living by principles it's all about controlling your fellow man.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Nicely put duecer, and it is only capitalism that recognises you are a property unto yourself. That no other person has a higher claim on you, not rwingett, not kmax, not Redmoke.

Capitalism rests on the principle: You are the owner of your own life.

Socialism and unionism protects that ownership from the rapacious exploits that some owners of capital would exact on the unrepresented worker, something that the starry eyed idealists in Wajomaland, are yet to concede.

Originally posted by kmax87
Socialism and unionism protects that ownership from the rapacious exploits that some owners of capital would exact on the unrepresented worker, something that the starry eyed idealists in Wajomaland, are yet to concede.

You are free to join any collective you like kmax, I have always maintained that, just that you have no right to force membership on others. Some businesses actually prefer to deal with unions.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
How are freeloaders punished?

I don't think "freeloading" will be much of a problem. It wasn't even that big a problem in Sweden
when we still had a rather generous policy. Most people take pride in being part of something bigger,
and most people want to do their part if they're capable and they don't feel like they're being used.
But consider the possibility that someone think (s)he for some reason deserve to work even less
than is required to maintain society (which is already a little considering the work's been distributed
on all work enabled citizens) because (s)he's taking risks or whatever, then I'm fairly sure that
society at large will simply deny him/her access to the resources produced. Soon enough it will be
clear to this person that working the same amount of hours as everyone else is a small price to pay
for having everything needed to survive, plus an abundance of free time to do as (s)he please with.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Nicely put duecer, and it is only capitalism that recognises you are a property unto yourself. That no other person has a higher claim on you, not rwingett, not kmax, not Redmoke.

Capitalism rests on the principle: You are the owner of your own life.

Everything points to the amount of free time (=individual freedom) increasing when work is
distributed equally on all citizens. What you're saying makes little sense, as it provides greater
freedom for people with capital but almost completely takes away the freedom from people without
capital.

Any real democracy (under capitalism, socialism or whatever - since democracy itself would decide
the model) by its very definition would respect the individual's freedom of choice. Some economical
solutions limit your options more than others, but all in all it's the state of the democracy that
guarantees/takes away freedom of choice.

Originally posted by Wajoma
You enjoy thousands of technological advances everyday. If you were true to your principles you would renounce all things that have been developed as a result of the desire for people to improve their lives i.e. profit.

But the true colours are shining through now, it's nothing to do with living by principles it's all about controlling your fellow man.

If you've read anything I've written, you'd see that your post is a lame attempt at shaming me
for what you think socialism is all about. You fail. People control each other in every society
today. The difference would lie in the idea that either people willingly work the same
amount of hours a day as everyone else because they see the benefits and fairness in that, or
they allow a small elite to control them completely because they think that's necessary to run a
society. It's not about "me" wanting to control my fellow man. It's about "me" only having to work
as much as necessary to support society, and knowing that everyone else puts in an equal effort.
What people do with their free time after that is nothing I'm particularly interested in as long as it
doesn't have a negative effect on other people's lives.

Now if you want to challenge any of the points I'm making, rather than spewing age-old capitalist
propaganda and lame insults all over the place, please do so.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Capitalism rests on the principle: You are the owner of your own life.

Capitalism rests on the principle: If you are on the brink of starvation I can pay you almost nothing for a 60 hour week.

Originally posted by FMF
Capitalism rests on the principle: If you are on the brink of starvation I can pay you almost nothing for a 60 hour week.

reccd, but those in Wajoland would still say that the poor shmuck whose village has been transformed by benevolent corporate imperialism has a *choice* to do something else.