08 Nov 11
Originally posted by KazetNagorraIf Fox News and MSNBC are biased, both get an equal chance to promote their ideas. The trouble with well funded public broadcasters is that they aren't necessarily more even handed than either of those others mentioned.
To an extent, yes. For example, corporations can buy into influence with media organizations and then you get excesses such as Fox News and MSNBC. That's why you also need an independent, well-funded public broadcaster like the BBC in the UK.
The Soviets had State funded media, but who would argue that gave Soviet citizens fair and balanced coverage? A State funded media has a problem remaining independent.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by no1marauder"Unions are free associations of human beings."
Unions are free associations of human beings. They deserve more protection than artificial economic creations designed to protect owners from their own folly. Your anti-worker bias is on its usual ignorant display, but rationality could hardly be expected of someone who thinks the main cause of our economic problems is that the average worker gets paid t ...[text shortened]... ity towards worker protections over the last 30 years is a major component of our economic woes.
When you start out with something as obviously arguable as this, how does anyone take seriously what follows. What's free about, "if you want to work in this shop, you will join the union and pay dues."?
The rest is fantasy land stuff, which you routinely parrot, and deserves no comment.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by KazetNagorraDo you believe it to be humorous that a workers fringe benefits may cost half to two thirds of the total cost of his employment?
I hope you do realize that worker benefits are a joke in the US. I don't know how you guys put up with bosses who demand 50 weeks of work a year.
Would it not make more sense to simply pay employees in cash, and let them shop for the benefits?
08 Nov 11
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Originally posted by normbenignI listen to NPR every morning and I have found it to be very fair and ballanced. In fact they throw out all of the garbage that makes cable news garbage. That perpetual state of trying to drum up soap opera style drama instead of just reporting the facts.
If Fox News and MSNBC are biased, both get an equal chance to promote their ideas. The trouble with well funded public broadcasters is that they aren't necessarily more even handed than either of those others mentioned.
The Soviets had State funded media, but who would argue that gave Soviet citizens fair and balanced coverage? A State funded media has a problem remaining independent.
There's a distinct difference between publicly funded broadcasting and state run media outlets in dictatorial countries who control the content by force.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by normbenignCompanies have the combined negotiating power of their entire staff, sometimes to the tune of thousands of employees.
Do you believe it to be humorous that a workers fringe benefits may cost half to two thirds of the total cost of his employment?
Would it not make more sense to simply pay employees in cash, and let them shop for the benefits?
I would much rather have my employer go to an insurance company and ask for rates to insure 500 people, than me walk in by myself and ask for a quote.
08 Nov 11
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Originally posted by normbenignYou gain a benefit (i.e. increased bargaining power), so you have to pay for it. That's about as fair as anything I can imagine.
"Unions are free associations of human beings."
When you start out with something as obviously arguable as this, how does anyone take seriously what follows. What's free about, "if you want to work in this shop, you will join the union and pay dues."?
The rest is fantasy land stuff, which you routinely parrot, and deserves no comment.
No union was ever put in place at a shop or business except by a vote of the employees. I know you depise the idea of democracy because, in theory anyway, each lowly peasant gets just as much say as one of your Randian God Men, but hey some people find it a fair way to make collective decisions. Go figure.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperSmall companies don't have significant barganing power (for US health insurance the magic number is 50 employees) and they have to guess the benefit package their employees would like. Often employees would be better with cash and to pick the package they want. In my business we have people wishing we had more overage (and would be willing to pay for it) and others wishing we had less and that they could keep the difference.
Companies have the combined negotiating power of their entire staff, sometimes to the tune of thousands of employees.
I would much rather have my employer go to an insurance company and ask for rates to insure 500 people, than me walk in by myself and ask for a quote.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by no1marauder"You are utterly ignorant and a bit insane."
You are utterly ignorant and a bit insane. Worker wages and benefits in the last 30 years have stagnated or declined while productivity has almost doubled. To insist that workers suffer more so your Randian God Men get even more is ridiculous.
American workers are among the most productive in the world and our hours worked among the h ...[text shortened]... what rights unions have (the union is merely the collective voice of the individual members).
Your need to insult others is a mental disorder.
"Worker wages and benefits in the last 30 years have stagnated or declined while productivity has almost doubled."
And during the same time period, the most unionized shops have been saved from bankruptcy only by government bailouts.
"workers in repressive countries can be forced to toil for far less pay."
Measure the output of those repressed laborers.
"The idea of a corporation is 100% artificial; it is based on limited liability of shareholders a completely legalistic concept. Unions, by contrast, are associations of individuals having common interests: a most basic and natural idea."
Unions and corporations are both artificial, but natural creations, which enhance their members ability to reach goals, primarily earning money in both cases.
Limiting liability enables investment. Nobody in his right mind today would even run a sole proprietorship without incorporation. A simple unavoidable accident could wipe out both business and personal assets. The worker wants a stronger bargaining position, and gets it by bargaining collectively. This is strictly a legal concoction, just as much as the LLC is. Without the protection of the law, an employer would be under no obligation to bargain with the union. The notion that one is "natural" and the other artificial is pure tauroscatology.
08 Nov 11
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Originally posted by normbenignOver 75% of businesses in the US aren't incorporated, genius.
"You are utterly ignorant and a bit insane."
Your need to insult others is a mental disorder.
"Worker wages and benefits in the last 30 years have stagnated or declined while productivity has almost doubled."
And during the same time period, the most unionized shops have been saved from bankruptcy only by government bailouts.
"workers in repre on. The notion that one is "natural" and the other artificial is pure tauroscatology.
There are three types of stuff in your posts: 1) Obvious factual mistakes; 2) Incorrect information and 3) Drivel.
People working together made common decisions from the very earliest of Man's existence on Earth. That is natural; saying that Rich Guy A is shielded from paying for the harm he caused because he is now an artificial entity is not.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by no1marauderYou don't address the force that starts the union in the first place, or that which is imposed on the potentially 49% of the workers who did not vote for it.
You gain a benefit (i.e. increased bargaining power), so you have to pay for it. That's about as fair as anything I can imagine.
No union was ever put in place at a shop or business except by a vote of the employees. I know you depise the idea of democracy because, in theory anyway, each lowly peasant gets just as much say as one of your Randian God Men, but hey some people find it a fair way to make collective decisions. Go figure.
My caution about democracy is that of protecting those in the minority, and the possibility of voting away basic human rights that aren't popular. It has nothing to do with "God Men" or any other of you fantasies.
In your distorted world, it would be wrong that the owner of a company has some input into wages. Inputs more than the bargaining agent of a crooked union has, a person who has no interest in either the productivity of the company, nor the interests of the workers.
I've worked in union shops as a temp, and in a day or two was outproducing the union drones. That made me a pariah, but impressing jerks has never been high on my priority list.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by normbenignIf your work output is as worthless as your posts here, I can't imagine you ever had to worry about impressing anyone.
You don't address the force that starts the union in the first place, or that which is imposed on the potentially 49% of the workers who did not vote for it.
My caution about democracy is that of protecting those in the minority, and the possibility of voting away basic human rights that aren't popular. It has nothing to do with "God Men" or any other ...[text shortened]... ones. That made me a pariah, but impressing jerks has never been high on my priority list.
08 Nov 11
Originally posted by no1marauderYours are pure drivel.
Over 75% of businesses in the US aren't incorporated, genius.
There are three types of stuff in your posts: 1) Obvious factual mistakes; 2) Incorrect information and 3) Drivel.
People working together made common decisions from the very earliest of Man's existence on Earth. That is natural; saying that Rich Guy A is shielded from paying for the harm he caused because he is now an artificial entity is not.
I did not say that all businesses are incorporated. I said that it isn't sane not to incorporate, although I did business in that insane manner for about 30 years. You obviously have reading and comprehension disabilities. There is SSI assistance for that.
You do the same thing with everyone else too. Make up what you say their argument is, and bam make a damned fool of yourself.
" People working together made common decisions from the very earliest of Man's existence on Earth."
Yes, without the legal fiction of a labor union. They did it with individuals freely bargaining with each other.
What do you suppose the single most influential factor in cultural and industrial development is?
08 Nov 11
Last year's US Supreme Court ruling allows companies to give unlimited sums to their chosen candidates without disclosure.
Charles Koch has already described next year's presidential contest as "The Mother of All Wars."
Great , so David and Charles Koch, worth $25bn each, have now given more than $100m to Rightwing causes from think groups through the Tea Party organisations. An estimated $55m since 1997 to climate change denial. Most recently we have Themis, their multi million dollar database of Right Wing organisations - with personal information like email addresses and phone numbers and general information to assist campaign strategists.
And to keep this on topic, it was in Colorado (Aspens, June 2010) that Karl Crow (who is leading the Themis development) proclaimed the mission as "mobilising citizens."
Time people realised that the wealthy are no longer the people whose talent and hard work has earned its just reward. They are increasingly an unaccountable aristocracy and they are promoting a persuasive brand of junk economics and fantasies about their natural leadership qualities to keep their status intact. They are deluded and delusional but stunningly persuasive because they have learned how to tell a story which has the appearance of being credible but which is built on lies and fantasies. And they have the money and the resources to drown out rational debate or critical thinking.