Originally posted by shavixmirWhat I'm saying is, historically, when empires have fallen, relocating populations has been critical to stabilizing nations.
Uh...dude...
What you're saying is that a country (read: the powerful in a country) can rearrange borders and then ethenically cleanse the area. And that's alright???
Nazi.
In the case of Estonia, the Russians had their way with the country for almost 50 years until the Russian empire fell. What is left is an Estonia with a Russian minority that refuses to fit into Estonian society. For example, removing the "empire" minority when they finally gained real independence would have solved this before it began.
As would sending back the silly statue when the USSR fell instead of wanting until now.
I don't believe its necessary for Estonia to relocate the Russians, they just need to integrate them better. Or do as Seitse suggests, if they refuse to learn the language, see ya! If theyre not willing to learn the language, they're not willing to be Estonians.
What's wrong with cultural freedom. What's all this talks of wiping out culture in name of integration. So you guys pick the majority culture and the whole country should wipe-out any other culture in name of integration.
Do you guys follow red-indian culture and their language?
Originally posted by druidraviBest I can tell, you're the first person to say anything about "wiping out" culture.
What's wrong with cultural freedom. What's all this talks of wiping out culture in name of integration. So you guys pick the majority culture and the whole country should wipe-out any other culture in name of integration.
Do you guys follow red-indian culture and their language?
What I said was that ethnic cleansing has lead to stable nation states. Its a fact of history. Its been an effective technique for thousands of years. That doesn't involve wiping out culture, it involves letting two different groups of people having their own cultures in two different areas instead of constant fighting in one area.
Red-Indian? Isn't that kind of racist? Why would I follow it? I'm an American. They have their own sovereign nations if they want to live there, or they can live just as free as any other American, in any part of America they choose. If I lived in a sovereign Indian nation, you might have a valid question, but in this case, you're a troll.
Originally posted by MerkYou're suggesting you need to know a language to live in a country?
What I'm saying is, historically, when empires have fallen, relocating populations has been critical to stabilizing nations.
In the case of Estonia, the Russians had their way with the country for almost 50 years until the Russian empire fell. What is left is an Estonia with a Russian minority that refuses to fit into Estonian society. For example, removing ...[text shortened]... , see ya! If theyre not willing to learn the language, they're not willing to be Estonians.
The plot thickens and becomes ever more bizarre.
Originally posted by shavixmirI'm suggestion it could make sense for some countries to require the able to learn the national language before gaining citizenship. How else are the governed going to communicate with their government?
You're suggesting you need to know a language to live in a country?
The plot thickens and becomes ever more bizarre.
Or, for your preference in gubmint, how else is a governmet going to control its people? 😉
Originally posted by MerkDamn, Merk, why you waste your time with slackers that repeat their ignorant propaganda lines over and over again?
I'm suggestion it could make sense for some countries to require the able to learn the national language before gaining citizenship. How else are the governed going to communicate with their government?
Or, for your preference in gubmint, how else is a governmet going to control its people? 😉
Originally posted by SeitseRight - so now your delusion is that I don't work, rather than that I'm old.
Oh, you are back.
And I thought you finally have found a worthy way of earning your food instead of draining public funds, you slacker.
And, once again, you are wrong: Language and culture have nothing to
do with ETHNICS, moron. A black African can learn Estonian language
and culture and be a normal Estonian, inserted into society as anybody
else.
...[text shortened]... who are
average Estonians, and no ethniticity stuff involved.
Loser. An ignorant as always.
Have they changed your medication then?
Originally posted by MerkYou don't think a country is capable of having two different languages?
I'm suggestion it could make sense for some countries to require the able to learn the national language before gaining citizenship. How else are the governed going to communicate with their government?
Or, for your preference in gubmint, how else is a governmet going to control its people? 😉
Originally posted by RedmikeI think the more languages involved, the more difficult it becomes. 2 languages is relatively manageable. About the only problem you'll see in that instance is people speaking the conventional national language complaining about the extra tax dollars involved in printing the government forms, signs etc in extra languages and having to have the added burden of a large petion of public employees having to speak the additional language of the minority. Where it gets completely unmanageable is in countries as diverse as the U.S. The last census data I saw was 172 or 173 distinct languages. We end up with a lot of areas where they simply cannot communicate effective with the authorities or their representatives etc. There is no way for these peoples voices to be heard. In addition, if we cannot communicate with others around us, we cannot integrate into society.
You don't think a country is capable of having two different languages?
Originally posted by MerkI don't disagree.
I think the more languages involved, the more difficult it becomes. 2 languages is relatively manageable. About the only problem you'll see in that instance is people speaking the conventional national language complaining about the extra tax dollars involved in printing the government forms, signs etc in extra languages and having to have the added burden of a ...[text shortened]... In addition, if we cannot communicate with others around us, we cannot integrate into society.
My point is simply that, in a country with 2 languages, it is nonsense to suddenly announce that 1 group should learn the other language or be deported.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Soldier_of_Tallinn#Background
" Background
In 1991, the Republic of Estonia reinstated its independence from the Soviet Union. At the time over a third of Estonia's population were descendants of Russian and other Soviet migrants, who came to Estonia during the post-war period.
In 1992, under prime minister Mart Laar, the pre-war citizenship law was reinstated, reserving Estonian citizenship to descendants of pre-1940 citizens. Ex-Soviet citizens could apply for Estonian citizenship after passing an advanced Estonian language and History exam.[10]
In 1992, 32% of Estonian residents lacked any form of citizenship. Of the ethnic non-Estonians approximately one third have received Estonian citizenship, one third have opted for Russian citizenship (or may hold illegal dual citizenship[11]) and a third have no citizenship at all. In April 2006, the Population Registry of the Estonian Ministry of the Interior reported that 9% of Estonia's residents have undefined citizenship and 7.4% have foreign citizenship.[12] While there have been calls for the return of all non Estonians to Russia, the official government policy has been of “integration”, demanding that all native Russians learn the Estonian language on a basic level.[10]
The issue of post-WWII history is at the core of the ethnic issues in Estonia. Non-Russian ethnic Estonians widely regard the period of Soviet Estonia as an illegal Soviet occupation of the Baltic States, a viewpoint that is the official position of the Estonian Government as well as major Western powers such as the US. As a consequence, the ethnic Russian and other non-native population that immigrated during the occupation have been labeled by some as illegal occupiers.[citation needed] However to them the statue has an important meaning - it is a symbol of their right to live in Estonia as the descendants of liberators.[1]
"