Originally posted by BartsA matter of opinion, just like "how ugly is the ugly", if you know what I mean. It doesn't have to be mediatic to be shocking.
I'd say I don't know much about them, but I find it hard to believe they'd come close to this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
Mexico has been walked over, humiliated, invaded, and used as backyard quite enough during the short history of the U.S. The difference is that history is written by the winners, and nothing will come to the light about the U.S. - Mexico relationship until the U.S. suffers the same destiny as the Soviet Union.
Edit. Sorry that I am not able to give you a link, but what I can do is to recommend very good books on the subject: Try "Distant Neighbors" (Riding) and "Barbaric Mexico" (Turner), particularly Turner's book is an eye opener... for not-Mexicans, of course.
Originally posted by EladarIt's sad when people don't even know their own country's history, including the black marks.
[b]A matter of opinion
It is sad when people write off fact as "opinion".[/b]
I assume you're a teenager at best. Google the "Mexican American War" for starters; it'll explain how most of the Western states (including the presently most populous one) were seized from Mexico.
Yes, I am well aware of the fact that much of the Western US was once part of Mexico at one point in its past. I'm far from being a teenager and have a BA in History.
I simply do not view California, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada and Texas as anything but US territory. I'm sorry, but I do not buy into revisionist history passed off by the left these days.
Originally posted by EladarYou have an interesting definition of "revisionist history". You don't consider seizing huge tracts of territory from a neighboring country in a war of aggression as "mistreating" that country?
Yes, I am well aware of the fact that much of the Western US was once part of Mexico at one point in its past. I'm far from being a teenager and have a BA in History.
I simply do not view California, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada and Texas as anything but US territory. I'm sorry, but I do not buy into revisionist history passed off by the left these days.
At some point you've got to accept the concept of Status Quo. If you do not, then you must view every civilization as nothing more than an evil group of indiviudals who simply displaced the people before them, including the people of Mexico.
It is this kind of "the US has no rights to the Western States" point of view that I'm labeling revisionist history. The original discussion was about Poland, a soveriegn nation at this point in time and the abuses that it suffered under Soviet control. The people in cotrol of Russia at this time are simply the continuation of the Soviet Era.
Originally posted by EladarThe original discussion had nothing to do with Poland's alleged abuses under Soviet control. The discussion has to do to with the Russians understandable concern with weapons being stationed in Poland that could (conceivably) threaten Russia's nuclear deterrent. Russia's response has been to warn Poland that the stationing of such weapons on Polish soil makes them a possible target. This is unsurprising in the extreme.
At some point you've got to accept the concept of Status Quo. If you do not, then you must view every civilization as nothing more than an evil group of indiviudals who simply displaced the people before them, including the people of Mexico.
It is this kind of "the US has no rights to the Western States" point of view that I'm labeling revisionist history ...[text shortened]... The people in cotrol of Russia at this time are simply the continuation of the Soviet Era.
I made an analogy on what would be the US response if Russian weapons and troops were stationed in Mexico with that country's consent. We can reasonably surmise that the US response would be displeasure to say the least. It would be taken, quite accurately, as a direct threat to the US just as the Russians consider the same proposed actions in Poland a direct threat to them.
You were the one who brought up the rather irrelevant Cold War history and coupled that with a very poor knowledge of US-Mexican history. Putting that tangent aside, it remains true that pushing sophisticated weapons to the borders of a great power is dangerous business.
The original discussion had nothing to do with Poland's alleged abuses under Soviet control. The discussion has to do to with the Russians understandable concern with weapons being stationed in Poland that could (conceivably) threaten Russia's nuclear deterrent.
I guess that all depends on the point of view that one wishes to take.
Are you concerned with why Poland would want US help to defend itself from Russia? Or are you concerned with appeasing the Russians?
Personally I'm more concerned with protecting Poland. I'm ashamed of what we did to Hungary and all of Eastern Europe. I don't think we should let it happen again, be it in Poland or Georgia.
Originally posted by EladarThe Cuban missile crisis?
If the US had done to Mexico what the Soviets did to Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe, then I'd see the connection. Russia does not have the right to treat its neighbors like crap. They are not Russia's to do with as Russia sees fit.
Poland is its own nation. If Poland wants US protection from the Russian Bear, then I say we give it to them.
Originally posted by EladarPoland doesn't need defending from Russia. Or it didn't.
[b]The original discussion had nothing to do with Poland's alleged abuses under Soviet control. The discussion has to do to with the Russians understandable concern with weapons being stationed in Poland that could (conceivably) threaten Russia's nuclear deterrent.
I guess that all depends on the point of view that one wishes to take.
Are you conce f Eastern Europe. I don't think we should let it happen again, be it in Poland or Georgia.[/b]
Poland is being used for US purposes and is getting paid well in return. The down-side of taking Satan's dollar (I was going to go Shakespearian on that one, but decided to include the irony of the US's threats on Iran instead... go on... applause, you know it was crafty) is that Russia, the next door neighbour, isn't too pleased.