Originally posted by EladarYou base this assertion on what facts?
[b]Russia voluntarily withdrew from Poland and the other Eastern European countries and allowed the breakup of the USSR which led to independence for many other countries
Russia was about bankrupt back then and Putin's people were not in charge. Now that Putin and his people are back in charge, they are trying to return to the way the Soviet Union used to be. That's why I said they are returning to their old ways.[/b]
Originally posted by no1marauderNo, they could not have stayed. That's exactly the point.
Many in Russia did, as many in Russia thought Russia itself should become a free and democratic state. The people making the decision determined it was in Russia's best interest to withdraw. They could have stayed and there is little anybody could have done about it.
You base this assertion on what facts?
Sure I do. It is a well known fact that Ronald Reagan purposely started a spending war with the USSR. He knew that our economy was stronger and that the USSR could not keep up.
Gorbachev does not like the direction Putin is leading the country and he doesn't like the way Putin is taking Russian elections back to the days of having only one choice:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/29/world/europe/29russia.html
http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/88/350/14913_gorbachev.html
Limiting money for social programs and ensuring your candidate's election by eliminating opponents are both examples of going back to Soviet Era politics.
Originally posted by EladarThat is a well known right wing fairy tale. In fact, Reagan and the right wingers at the time declared we had to vastly increase military spending to catch up with the Soviets, who were supposedly far ahead of us in military strength due to the Democrats' supposed neglect of our military. This was, of course, BS but that was the rationale. The USSR did not break up because it could not keep up with the extravagant US military spending (it had no need to) but because of other internal factors.
[b]You base this assertion on what facts?
Sure I do. It is a well known fact that Ronald Reagan purposely started a spending war with the USSR. He knew that our economy was stronger and that the USSR could not keep up.
Gorbachev does not like the direction Putin is leading the country and he doesn't like the way Putin is taking Russian electio ...[text shortened]... te's election by eliminating opponents are both examples of going back to Soviet Era politics.[/b]
Putin's internal policies are irrelevant to this discussion.
Originally posted by Eladar"Near bankruptcy" is a meaningless concept for a nation state.
I guess we simply have no common ground on which to discuss this matter. You refuse to look at Putin for what he is based on his actions.
As far as the Ronald Reagan thing goes, do you deny that the USSR was near bankruptcy when it broke up?
It is beyond question that the Russian economy was far worse in the immediate aftermath of the breakup of the USSR than it was before.
I see. You are unwilling to admit that Soviet government was in a horrible economic condition at the time of the break up.
You refuse to see the real conditions that led to the Soviet break up and you refuse to look at the actions of the Russian leadership at this time.
As least I got that much out of you. At least I can understand why you believe as you do.
Originally posted by EladarHo-hum.
I see. You are unwilling to admit that Soviet government was in a horrible economic condition at the time of the break up.
You refuse to see the real conditions that led to the Soviet break up and you refuse to look at the actions of the Russian leadership at this time.
As least I got that much out of you. At least I can understand why you believe as you do.
The condition of the Soviet economy in the late 80's was not particularly good but that factor alone would not have led to the breakup of a powerful nation state (it never has before).
Your simplistic analysis is typical of one who has been shown to be so profoundly ignorant of history.
Originally posted by EladarThe polish people do not want them either, only the government and it has to be passed by Parliament. Why would the US put an army there except to antagonise Russia who just wzant to trade and had has the strongest economc growth in Europe, but the US are in a depression and as we know it is the best way for starting wars.
The US just needs to move all of its military forces from Germany and place them in Poland. The German people don't want us there anyhow.
We can be in a country that wants our presence and Poland can reep the economic benefits of having US bases.
if there is one, we know that the US would have started it by provocating Russia, but they cannot do it directly they need stooges like Poland and Georgia mad president who acted on bombing Sth Ossetia withe US moral support. Why do the US needs missiles there has no other reasons except if divides Europe as Russia federation could joined eventually the European Union.
The US tried to control everything so they can get their petrol (e.g. Irak) or by subversion (e.g Venezuela), stoppig countries to trade freely (e.g. Cuba), invading countries that cannot fight back (e.g Grenada) and I could keep going. In reverse Russian was invaded by everyone, (e.g Sweden, France, Germany), so a bit of understanding why they want and see missiles at their door steps quite badly in the same way the US would ot want Russian missiles in Mexico or Venezuela, Remember the Cuban crisis where Cuba accepted Russian missiles, poor Cuba is still under American threat to this day.
Originally posted by Celsius I... the Russian Federation joining the EU ? .... Have the Russians requested to join ? ... I don't think so.
if there is one, we know that the US would have started it by provocating Russia, but they cannot do it directly they need stooges like Poland and Georgia mad president who acted on bombing Sth Ossetia withe US moral support. Why do the US needs missiles there has no other reasons except if divides Europe as Russia federation could joined eventually the European Union.