18 Jun 04
Originally posted by usmc7257pot was a gateway drug for me, but mainly becuse it was illegal. To get the pot you have to get to know the dealers, so there's your link ot the next level already. If you smoke pot then your circle of friends grows to include those who smoke pot too. NOw, not everyone who smokes pot does other drugs, but nearly 100% of people who do other drugs smoke pot, so you are again bringing yourself into an environment where you are a heck of a lot closer and more accesable to other drugs than before. Add on top of that the iea that "this drug was cool and didn't hurt me like the authorities suggetsed. How cool will the other drugs be?" and you can see that the idea of a gateway drug isn't altogether stupid. It is however a gateway drug mainly for the reason that it is classified as an illegal drug.
haha oh dont get me started on that gateway drug trash. before i joined the marines i used to smoke grass al the time. i was doing that long before i ever lit up a cigarette. it never made me want to go out and try coccaine, heroine, or LSD. i chose not to do those because i thought the bad effects out weighed the good feeling i would get from them. tying t ...[text shortened]... breaks. like i said before i am in very good health and use smoking as a crutch to keep me sane.
18 Jun 04
1 edit
Originally posted by shavixmirthe basic premise for western law is "do as you chose, as long as it doesn't harm others". Smoking has been proven to be harmful to otehrs therefore there should be restrictions to reduce this, and that inclused smoke free restaurants. Smoking in confined spaces with kids or even worse when preganant should be seen as child abuse.
Where to start?
I think a wee quote by the late, yet ultimately great, Bill Hicks should get us rolling: "I'd stop smoking if I wasn't so scared of turning into one of you non-smokers...sanctimonious bastards, the lot of you."
I ...[text shortened]... yable are they?
Oh. gotta go. I'll finish this another time.
I quite often get the urge to punch people in the kidneys. It's a natural reflex and my animal right to express my anger. But I don't (most times), because the rule above pertains to the core of basic social order. The argument that 'I want to smoke and it's my right' doesn't hold any more water than 'I'm angry and I want to hit you'.
As for non-smokers being 'sanctamonious bastards', it's not the non-smokers you have to worry about. It the ex-smokers who are the smug, self satisfied, preachy gits that wind people up. Sorry.
18 Jun 04
Originally posted by DreamlaXfor someone who teaches buddhist principles you sure do call people names very quickly. You didn't start therefore you're smart and they're stupid? That sounds like you feel you are superior in some intrinsic fassion. I advise you don't mention that one if you try to be ordained.
I don't smoke, because I wasn't stupid enough to start.
18 Jun 04
Originally posted by belgianfreakwe interrupt this thread with an informative commercial break .
As for non-smokers being 'sanctamonious bastards', it's not the non-smokers you have to worry about. It the ex-smokers who are the smug, self satisfied, preachy gits that wind people up. Sorry.
there is a quotation that goes like this:
"people who quit smoking usually take up something else, like bragging about it."
also, the original well-distributed sticker to the "kissing ..." that is being presented here actually reads:
"kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray"
the opinions presented here do not necessarily reflect those of the advertisers.
now we return you to your regular programming.
in friendship,
prad
21 Jun 04
1 edit
Originally posted by belgianfreakYou seem quicker to assume how to teach Buddhism.
for someone who teaches buddhist principles you sure do call people names very quickly. You didn't start therefore you're smart and they're stupid? That sounds like you feel you are superior in some intrinsic fassion. I advise you don't mention that one if you try to be ordained.
A habit is entirely mental. The body does not crave the cigarette, your mind does. Someone with such a weak mind, in Buddhism, is ignorant, because they have no control over. They are ignorant because they follow what their delusions tell them to do.
"I want a smoke"
"I think I should get angry here"
"I can't be bothered"
"Just one more time won't hurt..."
A deluded mind, in Buddhism, means one that is ignorant from their delusions. A delusion is something in your mind that distorts reality. When you are angry, for example, you are ignorant of an object's real nature. I provided an example in another thread, where if you are angry at your partner, she is no longer the loving, caring and beautiful woman you fell in love with, because you are deluded, with a mind of anger, and you are ignorant of her real nature. Would you really be angry at her if you saw her as loving, caring, and beautiful? No, because it is this very view that brings you happiness, when you lose this view, you lose the happiness that comes with it.
It can also happen in reverse. When we are drunk, many of the girls that appeared less attractive before we were drunk, appear very beautiful while we are drunk. Our mind is deluded with alcohol, and we are not seeing people or another object's real nature.
So, someone who smokes, in my opinion, is stupid, because they choose to see a distorted reality, and don't truly contemplate the many benefits of not smoking.
23 Jun 04
Originally posted by DreamlaXHey DreamlaX - this assertion is simply untrue. Cravings/Habits/Addictions are not at all entirely mental. Every drug that is addictive hijacks the dopamine reward system and causes desensitization of dopamine receptors in regions of the brain known to contribute to the reward response. Stimulation of these regions leads to a feeling of well-being - rats will push a bar ad infinitum to receive electrical stimulation in the basal forebrain, the main target of dopamine projections in the reward system. This region is where cocaine, nicotine et al exert their effects. The action of these drugs is to flood these systems with dopamine, leading to decreased sensitivity of the receptors. Hence, the cycle of addiction lies in a reduced sensitivity to dopamine, which is offset when the drug is administered. Flooding the system with dopamine after drug administration is akin to returning the system to normal, once addiction has set in.
A habit is entirely mental. The body does not crave the cigarette, your mind does. Someone with such a weak mind, in Buddhism, is ignorant, because they have no control over
Withdrawal symptoms in addiction are simply a psychological manifestation of the need to increase dopamine release to the areas of the brain that need it, which would result in an increase in psychological well-being.
Hope this helps to show that addictions are not simply mental phenomena,
Joe
23 Jun 04
Originally posted by kyngjBut you can't disprove that these dopamines aren't released as a result of mental phenomena. My teacher used to smoke, until my spritual guide gave him a simple advice. He could stop immediately without withdrawal symptoms.
Hey DreamlaX - this assertion is simply untrue. Cravings/Habits/Addictions are not at all entirely mental. Every drug that is addictive hijacks the dopamine reward system and causes desensitization of dopamine receptors in regions of the brain known to contribute to the reward response. Stimulation of these regions leads to a feeling of well-being - rats will ...[text shortened]... well-being.
Hope this helps to show that addictions are not simply mental phenomena,
Joe
Most people think our brain and our mind are the same thing, but in Buddhism they are not, in fact, the mind, although formless, is actually closer to our heart than anything. Think for a second, when we are heartbroken, jealous or any other strong mental feeling, where do we feel it? In our head? No, we feel it in our chest. But these are just mental feelings, if we have a strong enough mind we don't feel them (or choose not to).
When I move my arm, sure, my brain sends bioelectrical pulses to my arm to send it, but the thought must have risen in my mind prior to my intentional arm movement. Likewise, perhaps it is our mind that releases the dopamines. The same way we have a mental habit to get angry. When we are angry, things trigger in our brain, but we know anger is only a state of mind.
24 Jun 04
Originally posted by DreamlaXWell, the way you phrase the question, you CAN disprove that it's released as a result of mental phenomena... Dopamine is released in response to nicotine acting at receptor sites for other neurotransmitters (acetylcholine) - Hence, even in a neurochemical system that did not possess a mind, the same cascade of events would occur in response to nicotine, and the same down-regulation of that system would occur in response to chronic nicotine administration - you don't need a mind for the mechanisms of addiction to occur...
But you can't disprove that these dopamines aren't released as a result of mental phenomena. My teacher used to smoke, until my spritual guide gave him a simple advice. He could stop immediately without withdrawal symptoms.
Most people think our brain and our mind are the same thing, but in Buddhism they are not, in fact, the mind, although form ...[text shortened]... hen we are angry, things trigger in our brain, but we know anger is only a state of mind.
What I'm saying is that addiction, dependence and cravings are not purely mental phenomena, but have biological bases. Whether or not cravings can be overcome/ignored/go completely unrecognised purely mentally does not factor into this point. The point is simply that the way in which cravings arise IS biological, it IS the body that craves the cigarette, and not the mind. Now, if the mind can overcome these cravings through any means possible, then you do have a way for the mental to overcome the physical, but to say that the source of the cravings is mental is not quite correct.
The reason we don't feel heartbroken or jealous in our head is because we don't have any sensation in there. The reason we feel emotions in our heart is because when something happens that elicits an emotional response our brains kick the parasympathetic nervous system into overdrive and our heart rate speeds up, we become short of breath, etc...
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I'm firmly in the materialist camp, and you're firmly not 😉
Fun debate though!
Joe
24 Jun 04
Originally posted by DreamlaXcan't bhuddists stop pain and such though?
But you can't disprove that these dopamines aren't released as a result of mental phenomena. My teacher used to smoke, until my spritual guide gave him a simple advice. He could stop immediately without withdrawal symptoms.
Most people think our brain and our mind are the same thing, but in Buddhism they are not, in fact, the mind, although form ...[text shortened]... hen we are angry, things trigger in our brain, but we know anger is only a state of mind.
also-my RE teahcer got us all to watch a video of a number of heroine addicts who wanted to quit. they went to a buhddist monastry, and pretty much gave it. it wasn't instantaneous, but it was pretty quick! 😛
the only thing i remember though was them puking up...which was just gross 😕
24 Jun 04
Originally posted by kyngj and DreamlaXYou both seem to agree that the mind can overcome addictions, which have their base in physical processes. I am quite interested to hear more about the mental processes that can help to overcome such cravings. If the price is not too high it could be supportive to people who want to get rid of such addictions.
Fjord
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24 Jun 04
Originally posted by CalJustEven though I dont smoke anymore, I have always found self-righteousness to be much more nauseating than any particular habit one might have
[b]Why do people still smoke? 😛
In the face of undeniable evidence linking smoking to the two most serious diseases we know: cancer and heart disease; in the face of growing public opposition to smoking and the banning of smokers from more and more public areas into small, filthy corners; in spite of this, why do peole still smoke??
It discolou ...[text shortened]... endemic in winter.
My question to any smokers on RHP is: Why on earth do you still do it?? [/b]