http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090803/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_obama_s_math_analysis
It appears that Obama's health care numbers are not adding up. 😲
That's right, the man who told us that unemployment would not surpass 8% and that his stimunlus plan would add over half a million jobs and that he would never raise taxes on the middle class, seems to have his facts mixed up once again, only it is about OUR health care.
Obama claims that his health effort will not dig the nation deeper into debt and over time help reduce deficits. In fact, he has vowed not to sign any health bill that raises deficits. But even the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says that none of the health plans pending on Capital Hill would control long-term spending, and the ones with the elements Obama wants would add around $1 trillion to the deficit over the next 10 years. Despite their reports, the Obama administration stands behind its claims
"From what we have seen so far, I don't look at this as a costs-saving effort", said Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, a budget watchdog group, "I don't know how they are going to pay for it, even over the first ten years. Getting off the launch pad is difficult, then controlling the orbit has not been figured out yet."
"HEALTH CARE PROGRAMS ALMOST ALWAYS COST MORE THAN FIRST PROJECTED, INCLUDING -- OBAMA LIKES TO POINT OUT -- BUSH'S MEDICARE PRESCRIPTION DRUG PROGRAM. "YOU PASSED A PRESCRIPTION DRUG PLAN AND DID NOT PAY FOR IT, HANDED THE BILL TO ME", OBAMA SAID IN REMARKS DIRECTED AT REPUBLICANS"
So I guess Obama defends his entitlements by showing the down fall of Bush's entitlement programs. Are these guys on crack? I know a perfect way to stop all of this asinine spending with promises of being able to pay for it all, you simply put a clause in the bill that anyone who signs it will have their worldly possessions confiscated and sold to pay for it if costs get out of hand. In fact, I think it would be good for both Obama and Bush to spend the rest of their days in a homeless shelter.....at the tax payers expense, of course. Its not like I'm a cold hearted evil conservative and want them to have to pay for it all. In fact, I view it as their entitlement. 😛
Originally posted by KazetNagorraImagine that, yet another disaster entitlement program. Who woulda thunk it? 😛
Every single universal health care scheme in the world is a lot cheaper than the US system. Only if the current proposals are extremely foolish would they not be cheaper than the current disaster of a health care system.
Having said that, when medicaid/medicare was first put into place many moons ago, do you think they had the slightest incling that it would be such a train wreck? I think the same could be said for this new proposal.
Originally posted by whodeySo how would you go about improving the Medicare and Medicaid programs?
Imagine that, yet another disaster entitlement program. Who woulda thunk it? 😛
Having said that, when medicaid/medicare was first put into place many moons ago, do you think they had the slightest incling that it would be such a train wreck? I think the same could be said for this new proposal.
Originally posted by MelanerpesI would be working to keep costs down rather than having the government take over everything. It seems to me that the government has more on its plate than it can handle currently. For example, perhaps some attention could be paid in regards to the legal system keeping costs elevated, such as the cost of malpractice insureance etc. However, the guys who are writing these lawa are all lawyers, so I think that is out of the question. Heck, I would be in favor or gutting social security and using that money to help the sick and dying. Of course, I'm sure Obama views retirement as a "right" just like he does health care.
So how would you go about improving the Medicare and Medicaid programs?
Having said that, philisophically I am against entitlement programs in general. I advocate trying to help the poor but at the same time they are not my task master, or at least, should not be.
Originally posted by whodeyAnd what a deep philosophy it is!
I would be working to keep costs down rather than having the government take over everything. It seems to me that the government has more on its plate than it can handle currently. For example, perhaps some attention could be paid in regards to the legal system keeping costs elevated, such as the cost of malpractice insureance etc. However, the guys who a ...[text shortened]... o help the poor but at the same time they are not my task master, or at least, should not be.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraI believe in helping the poor but the way I see it, the current economic shape of this country is comparable to someone who is going bankrupt taking out loans to help feed the poor. The bottom line is, if you don't take care of your own needs you will not be around long to take care of others for very long. Basically the Dems think that health care is a right, therefore, who the hell cares how it is payed for so just get the thing passed as of yesterday!! At least, that is the vibe I get from them.
And what a deep philosophy it is!
Originally posted by whodeyI agree -- we need to minimize the amount of "defensive medicine" that is done just in case someone files a lawsuit -- but we must still ensure that there are serious consequences for doctors who are truly reckless or incompetent
I would be working to keep costs down rather than having the government take over everything. It seems to me that the government has more on its plate than it can handle currently. For example, perhaps some attention could be paid in regards to the legal system keeping costs elevated, such as the cost of malpractice insureance etc. However, the guys who a ...[text shortened]... o help the poor but at the same time they are not my task master, or at least, should not be.
Originally posted by MelanerpesMedicare and Medicaid are a fie example on why the government can't take on universal health care. The costs of those grow far faste than the costs of private health care.
So how would you go about improving the Medicare and Medicaid programs?
Now, if the US govenment can get medicare and medicaid to be winners, then it's feasible they may be able to effectively manage universal health care, but not unil then. If they cant effectivl manage what they're responsible for now, how can they effectively manage far more?
Originally posted by whodeyif it was your health that was on the line, I suspect you'd start viewing it as a right.
I believe in helping the poor but the way I see it, the current economic shape of this country is comparable to someone who is going bankrupt taking out loans to help feed the poor. The bottom line is, if you don't take care of your own needs you will not be around long to take care of others for very long. The bottom line is that the Dems think that health ...[text shortened]... payed for so just get the thing passed yesterday!! At least, that is the vibe I get from them.
Originally posted by whodeyBut social security in the US is laughable, so how is it bankrupting the country?
I believe in helping the poor but the way I see it, the current economic shape of this country is comparable to someone who is going bankrupt taking out loans to help feed the poor. The bottom line is, if you don't take care of your own needs you will not be around long to take care of others for very long. Basically the Dems think that health care is a rig ...[text shortened]... for so just get the thing passed as of yesterday!! At least, that is the vibe I get from them.
Originally posted by MerkMedicare and Medicaid are a fie example on why the government can't take on universal health care.
Medicare and Medicaid are a fie example on why the government can't take on universal health care. The costs of those grow far faste than the costs of private health care.
Now, if the US govenment can get medicare and medicaid to be winners, then it's feasible they may be able to effectively manage universal health care, but not unil then. If they cant effectivl manage what they're responsible for now, how can they effectively manage far more?
Do you mean government in general, or the US government specifically?
Originally posted by KazetNagorraWell, it would be hard to hold any government other than the US government accountable for medicare and medicaid... and the topic is a US universal healthcare system....
[b]Medicare and Medicaid are a fie example on why the government can't take on universal health care.
Do you mean government in general, or the US government specifically?[/b]
Originally posted by MelanerpesSo what do you define as a right in terms of health care? Do you think that the nice little package the elitists in Washington have set up for themselves that no one else has access to should also be our right or should we settle for what they want us to have? The bottom line is, if this passes and someone gets cancer and can't get in to see their doctor for weeks on end because of the wiat times or are restricted form certain procedures that would increase their chances significantly I would say that my rights are being violated as well in such cases. In fact, I heard a lady tell me that she brought her son to the US to be treated for cancer and because the US health care system responded faster and more aggressive that his chances of survival increased. In fact, he is fine now.
if it was your health that was on the line, I suspect you'd start viewing it as a right.