Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI can only hope mine was the one brought into question.
Yesterday, a high-profile Christian member brought two other high-profile Christian members' salvation into question, saying he doubted they would be saved and that he was not comfortable having them as brothers in Christ. He justified this by saying that their interpretation of the Bible and their subsequent behavior did not match his, the one tru ...[text shortened]... will burn in hell unless he repents and eradicates the inconsistencies in his position.
Dr. S
Originally posted by KellyJay
1. Through Him, there is no other name, no other person, He is
the way, the truth, the light.
Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
I'm sorry, KellyJay. I was not clear. What does it mean that
salvation is found in no one else? What does it mean that
salvation is found through Christ?
Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe your 2nd question is why we have so many different
denominations...
That wasn't the gist of my question. I'm reasonably familiar
with the tenets of demoninations and have my own theories.
What I meant was can a Christian, in the context of his or
her personal relationship with God in Christ, come to a different
stance about morality than dictated by the Bible? Given that God
adopted a different stance on slavery between the Law and the
time of Jesus and adjusted it to the needs of the time, can this
same God speak to one of His faithful and say tell that person
that the so-called immoral actions taken are, in fact, right and just?
Nemesio
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI'd say you are both wrong & right...
The law of non-contradiction, simply stated, says that
logical contradictions cannot exist.
The law of non-contradiction is more powerful than God.
It prevents Him from making a rock too heavy for Him to lift.
It prevents Him ...[text shortened]... make sure that law says it is OK.
Am I right or wrong?
Dr. S
Man can build items far heavier than he can physically lift, and he can build machines to lift those heaviest items, god if he exists, he could do the same making a mockery out of the law.
Humans have children which have same scope of abilities, as themselves. It is reasonable that God (if he exists) will have the potential to do the same, i.e. a god child, which would have skills equal to god, if the two had a battle then neither would win, the child would be both stoppable and unstoppable, an impassable barrier.
If god did exist and created the universe then he would have had to create the non-contradiction law itself, if so this would be a logical contradiction. If not then who created the law, did it evolve by itself, or was it another "true" god, eitherway it demotes our god to just "model maker" and not creater.
Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best, if god doesn't exist then the law of non-contradiction is more powerful than god.
Originally posted by nemesioWell for your 1. it is Jesus Christ personally, go to Him directly I'm not
Originally posted by KellyJay
[b]1. Through Him, there is no other name, no other person, He is
the way, the truth, the light.
Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
I'm sorry, KellyJay. I was not clear. What does it mean that
salvation is found in no ...[text shortened]... l that person
that the so-called immoral actions taken are, in fact, right and just?
Nemesio[/b]
sure if that is what your asking, but that is what I'm talking about.
Your number 2. I believe that there is 1 God, 1 Holy Spirit of God
and if He is leading it will shake out the same. I do not believe that
you are going to see things directly rejected like sex outside of
marriage, accepted by God. Man may accept them in god's name,
but God will not turn around like that.
Our discussion of slavery isn't like accepting something once
directly rejected in scripture by God.
Kelly
Originally posted by Jay PeateaAs omnipotence is commonly understood, an omnipotent being need not rely on external powers to accomplish his tasks, for he has every power himself. In other words, given that God is omnipotent, there can be nothing external to him that would give him more power. For this reason, it does not make sense to suppose that he could build a machine more powerful than himself to lift the too-heavy rock, for if he did, he would be relinquishing his own omnipotence; once the machine was built, God himself would have powers inferior to the machine.
Man can build items far heavier than he can physically lift, and he can build machines to lift those heaviest items, god if he exists, he could do the same making a mockery out of the law.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesNot necessary for the machine could not do anything without the operator, it would be like a further extension to his powers, or perhaps a more efficient way (like a rope & pulley in lifting) of using his powers.
As omnipotence is commonly understood, an omnipotent being need not rely on external powers to accomplish his tasks, for he has every power himself. In other words, given that God is omnipotent, there can be nothing external to him that would give him more power. For this reason, it does not make sense to suppose that he could build a machine more ...[text shortened]... omnipotence; once the machine was built, God himself would have powers inferior to the machine.
Originally posted by Jay PeateaThen you are taking all the punch out of "omnipotent" as RWillis and KellyJay did. What does omnipotence signify if one must make use of outside help to achieve tasks? Under this, we could argue that all men are omnipotent, and that when they fail to achieve something, that is only because they don't have the proper tool or machine to help them.
Not necessary for the machine could not do anything without the operator, it would be like a further extension to his powers, or perhaps a more efficient way (like a rope & pulley in lifting) of using his powers.
Regarding #1: What I am asking is what does it
mean to be saved through Christ? The
'through' is the operative term. If it said 'by'
Christ, then I would understand it more clearly.
Regarding #2: Your example is 'sex outside of
marriage.' Can you fathom an example where such
a thing would be sanctioned in the eyes of God?
For example, let's say a poor couple lived in an area
where the churches were all hateful and spiteful, filled
with hypocrite priests and ministers. Let's imagine that
the nearest true church was 500 miles away, and this
couple barely had enough money to put bread on the
table. Let's assume that they are committed to each
other and to God. They've waited for 5 years in this
fashion without conjugals, hoping that a decent church
would open, but none has. God is present in their lives
and in their relationship. They have prayed alone and
together and know that God is with them, loves them,
and blesses their wholesome relationship.
In the absence of an officiating minister, can they without
ceremony or church pledge themselves before God and friends,
call themselves married and engage in healthy conjugal
relations?
Nemesio
Originally posted by KellyJay
Our discussion of slavery isn't like accepting something once
directly rejected in scripture by God.
P.S., Our discussion of slavery is the opposite. It is the
apparent rejection of something that was accepted by God.
I don't want to branch off and have the same conversation in
two threads, because it will get too confusing.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesmaybe we are 🙂
Then you are taking all the punch out of "omnipotent" as RWillis and KellyJay did. What does omnipotence signify if one must make use of outside help to achieve tasks? Under this, we could argue that all men are omnipotent, and that when they fail to achieve something, that is only because they don't have the proper tool or machine to help them.
How can god be omnipotent if there are some limits to god's power ?
Originally posted by Jay PeateaThat's the point of this thread - to get people to acknowledge that omnipotence is not a property that can be held by any being, God or otherwise, acting within or upon a universe in which the law of non-contradiction holds. If God exists, he is not omnipotent.
maybe we are 🙂
How can god be omnipotent if there are some limits to god's power ?