Sweden's Herd Immunity

@jimm619 said
....Failed miserably
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-covid-no-lockdown-strategy-failed-higher-death-rate-2021-8?op=1

Why are you concerned about Sweden's herd immunity? Different statistics point in different directions. What is your point with that article, dated August last year if I read correctly?

@torunn said
Why are you concerned about Sweden's herd immunity? Different statistics point in different directions. What is your point with that article, dated August last year if I read correctly?

We like to argue 😆

@jimm619 said
We like to argue 😆

ok 🙂

@divegeester said
Herd immunity works, it’s the main reason the human race has survived countless viruses and other pathogens. However your point, that trying to achieve herd immunity without taking any restrictive measures can be hugely risky, is fair.

In my opinion most countries went over the top and did more collateral damage than they avoided.

Herd immunity… what a bloody term.

Anyhoo’s… herd immunity means that a sufficient amount of the population are immune to the disease to stop the spread.
Nothing more, nothing less.

There are ways of achieving herd immunity (everyone recovering, vaccinations, etc.).

The level of immunity needed to create hers immunity is a measuring between how fast a disease spreads, its incubation time, its mortality rate and which percentage of the population has to be immune to drop the R-figure far below 1.

Now, in the begin of corona there were no vaccinations, the spread rate was high, incubation seemed long and the mortality rate (at least in certain segments of the population) was worrying.

In that situation there is no other action rational than taking measures to slow the disease and keep the health services functioning.

Not taking measures is risky madness, at best. Murder at worst.

Once vaccinations became easily available, the measures could have been dropped. However, so many people didn’t take the vaccinations, that it was very hard to get the R-number down without measures.

Luck. Seriously, LUCK, sent us this weakened version of the virus (less likely to kill) allowing the unvaccinated to recover and so create the needed herd immunity.

If omicron had been at least as deadly (or creating the same amount of hospitalisations) as delta, we’d still he wearing masks and isolating.

@sh76 said
Just wondering: Did you notice the dateline on that article? If so, posting it without that caveat is a strange decision. If not, well, look at the dateline.

In any case, regardless of your priors, if the Omicron and Shanghai experiences hasn't taught you that lockdowns are futile in the long run or the horrors that happen when lockdown theory is taken to its extreme, you sho ...[text shortened]... ing to say that we should lock down; in which case, fine, but what is it that you ARE trying to say?

Lock downs are very useful in densely populated areas in the short term until vaccination rates can kick in and younger healthy people can gradually develop immunity through infection.
I think a lot of us got into a lockdown fever and extended them beyond their useful period.
I eventually caught the omicron variant but I'd had two vaccines and a booster by then, it was like a really crappy flu for about 3 days and then a fortnight of fatigue.
I’m sure if I had caught the Alpha or Delta variants before getting vaccinated it would have been a very different outcome and I’m grateful to the early lockdowns and mask mandates for avoiding that scenario.

@shavixmir said
Herd immunity… what a bloody term.

Anyhoo’s… herd immunity means that a sufficient amount of the population are immune to the disease to stop the spread.
Nothing more, nothing less.

There are ways of achieving herd immunity (everyone recovering, vaccinations, etc.).

The level of immunity needed to create hers immunity is a measuring between how fast a disease spre ...[text shortened]... r creating the same amount of hospitalisations) as delta, we’d still he wearing masks and isolating.

Hindsight is 20/20, but in retrospect, herd immunity was never going to be a thing with covid due to mutating virus, imperfect immunity and non-sterilizing vaccines.

Herd immunity to covid is like herd immunity to the flu. It's never happening unless we come up with some sort of sterilizing vaccine.

@kevcvs57 said
Lock downs are very useful in densely populated areas in the short term until vaccination rates can kick in and younger healthy people can gradually develop immunity through infection.
I think a lot of us got into a lockdown fever and extended them beyond their useful period.
I eventually caught the omicron variant but I'd had two vaccines and a booster by then, it was lik ...[text shortened]... ferent outcome and I’m grateful to the early lockdowns and mask mandates for avoiding that scenario.

My wife and daughter tested positive yesterday and today respectively. Wife has moderate flu symptoms but she's okay; 17 yo daughter asymptomatic. We have a 4 week old baby and that's quite worrisome to me, but the pediatrician says that we shouldn't worry because his 2+ years of experience says that babies are practically immune. I hope so. So, far, so good.

I'm waiting for it to come for me, which I expect it will within the next few days (I was exposed long before I knew they had covid, so I'm not putting any hope in the N95 I'm wearing around the house right now). I got my booster in November, so my protection is marginal against symptoms but good against serious illness.