30 Mar 17
Originally posted by twhiteheadThey had some trouble in NI over that.
So Northern Ireland isn't part of Britain I take it?
[b]Britons tend to view the rest of the world through those blinkers.
Actually it has little or nothing to do with the sea. Almost all people in all countries are highly nationalistic wherever the boundaries might be. A few countries have more than one group in them and come pretty close to civil war - but even they tend to be very nationalistic.[/b]
30 Mar 17
Originally posted by moonbusThere's an outside chance that Northern and Southern Ireland might unite because of 'Brexit'. Now that would be a positive....If on the other extreme the hard border goes back up again, that would be one of the disasters that I referred to earlier. I am hoping for the former.
They had some trouble in NI over that.
01 Apr 17
1 edit
As the EU leadership steadily devolve into the expected childish unprinciplness, the chief minister of Gibralta stands up for reason and democracy.
Gibraltar will be 'even more British' after Brexit, says chief minister Picardo
http://news.sky.com/story/gibraltar-will-be-even-more-british-after-brexit-says-chief-minister-picardo-10819502
01 Apr 17
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterI'm not sure that you have a very grounded view of this. I felt that May's position that the status of EU nationals resident in the UK should be dependent on negotiations proceeding well was pretty unscrupulous. Spain are trying to insist on a veto on Gibraltar, the rest of the EU are indifferent. The EU are insisting that the terms of Britain's exit should be negotiated before the terms of any future deal. They claim not to be overly concerned about the potential loss of Britain's military contribution, although since that's 5% and there are 27 rump EU member states and Germany is refusing to increase military spending to 2% of GDP I'm skeptical about their ability to make up the difference. Also, apparently, we have to pay something around £50 billion for reasons unclear to me - the various reports I've read really don't explain that well. I think that the UK's bargaining position is pretty weak.
As the EU leadership steadily devolve into the expected childish unprinciplness, the chief minister of Gibralta stands up for reason and democracy.
Gibraltar will be 'even more British' after Brexit, says chief minister Picardo
http://news.sky.com/story/gibraltar-will-be-even-more-british-after-brexit-says-chief-minister-picardo-10819502
01 Apr 17
Originally posted by DeepThoughtI understand that you are anti Brexit and your opinion of May will be coloured that way. I feel that the EU are being pretty unscrupulous, so does the first minister of Gibraltar.
I'm not sure that you have a very grounded view of this. I felt that May's position that the status of EU nationals resident in the UK should be dependent on negotiations proceeding well was pretty unscrupulous. Spain are trying to insist on a veto on Gibraltar, the rest of the EU are indifferent. The EU are insisting that the terms of Britain's exit ...[text shortened]... read really don't explain that well. I think that the UK's bargaining position is pretty weak.
01 Apr 17
Originally posted by DeepThoughtSpain needs to tread carefully over the Gibraltar issue .
I'm not sure that you have a very grounded view of this. I felt that May's position that the status of EU nationals resident in the UK should be dependent on negotiations proceeding well was pretty unscrupulous. Spain are trying to insist on a veto on Gibraltar, the rest of the EU are indifferent. The EU are insisting that the terms of Britain's exit ...[text shortened]... read really don't explain that well. I think that the UK's bargaining position is pretty weak.
Spain could quite easily stir the hornets nest of the Catalonians giving them more hope of separation from Spain if they (Spain) are seen to be using bully boy tactics over Gibraltar .
Catalonia is one of the more prosperous regions of Spain ..
01 Apr 17
Originally posted by phil3000My post wasn't very well organised. But regarding Gibraltar remaining in the EU it is only the Spanish who have a vested interest. I can't imagine the rest of the EU are anything other than indifferent. That the Spanish are requesting a veto does not reflect on the EU or the other member states, so that sentence in my post was just intended to point out that accusing the EU of being unscrupulous about Gibraltar is misplaced.
Spain needs to tread carefully over the Gibraltar issue .
Spain could quite easily stir the hornets nest of the Catalonians giving them more hope of separation from Spain if they (Spain) are seen to be using bully boy tactics over Gibraltar .
Catalonia is one of the more prosperous regions of Spain ..
01 Apr 17
1 edit
Originally posted by DeepThoughtThey (the EU) are being immediately unprincipled in trying to use Gibraltar as a "pawn" (the first minister of Gibraltar's words) in the negotiations with the UK. If this is a taste of what's to come, and I fully expect it will be, then it's probalby going to get very silly very quickly.
My post wasn't very well organised. But regarding Gibraltar remaining in the EU it is only the Spanish who have a vested interest. I can't imagine the rest of the EU are anything other than indifferent. That the Spanish are requesting a veto does not reflect on the EU or the other member states, so that sentence in my post was just intended to point out that accusing the EU of being unscrupulous about Gibraltar is misplaced.
01 Apr 17
Originally posted by divegeesterI know you might find this hard to believe, but I can separate my views concerning Brexit from my views about May. Besides, she campaigned for Remain so the policy is hardly her idea. As an aside, I double checked that on Wikipedia and was entertained that having typed "Ther" into the search box "Theresa May" came first in the list of suggestions and "Thermonuclear Weapon" came second.
I understand that you are anti Brexit and your opinion of May will be coloured that way. I feel that the EU are being pretty unscrupulous, so does the first minister of Gibraltar.
What I was responding to in your posts is that you seem to regard the worries of remain voters as invalid. For the record I voted remain on a 'Devil you know' basis rather than out of any great enthusiasm for the EU. What's recently been making me wonder about whether Leave might be the right choice is General de Gaulle's stated reason for vetoing our first two EEC membership applications - that the British economy had fundamental structural differences from continental Europe's - maybe he was right all along. Either way there are considerable risks for the UK, fragmentation being one of them. Even if it is the right thing to do in the long term there is scope for a lot of pain in the short to medium term. I do not think that the UK's bargaining position is as good as the government is presenting it as.
01 Apr 17
Originally posted by divegeesterIsn't Gibralter a prison for drunk English tourists?
They (the EU) are being immediately unprincipled in trying to use Gibraltar as a "pawn" (the first minister of Gibraltar's words) in the negotiations with the UK. If this is a taste of what's to come, and I fully expect it will be, then it's probalby going to get very silly very quickly.
Why the hell would the EU care about it and its bloody monkey population?
01 Apr 17
Originally posted by DeepThoughtI don't think the 50 billion exists.
I'm not sure that you have a very grounded view of this. I felt that May's position that the status of EU nationals resident in the UK should be dependent on negotiations proceeding well was pretty unscrupulous. Spain are trying to insist on a veto on Gibraltar, the rest of the EU are indifferent. The EU are insisting that the terms of Britain's exit ...[text shortened]... read really don't explain that well. I think that the UK's bargaining position is pretty weak.
I bet it's the French thought it up just to piss the English off.
01 Apr 17
Originally posted by shavixmirThe EU document doesn't name a figure, but the European Council's document contains a sentence that talks about financial settlement but does not name a figure. Amounts up to 60 million Euros have apparently been bandied around by officials. Although since this seems to be Britain's normal contribution it's not obvious to me why it needs to be mentioned.
I don't think the 50 billion exists.
I bet it's the French thought it up just to piss the English off.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-39454447
01 Apr 17
Originally posted by divegeesterAnyone who thinks that 'Brexit' is having and will have no effect one way or the other on the North/South Irish border is missing something, so your statement is ridiculous as I think (and hope) that you know well enough. So of course I will 'blame' 'Brexit' if the border goes hard, (bad thing) just as I will 'blame' 'Brexit' if as a result of it the two countries finally unite in harmonious fashion (good thing). I think I made that point quite clearly, so please try to be less selective in your criticism of that which people write, it really isn't clever or helpful. And anyway, what team?
Perhaps you should blame global warming on Brexit, or maybe your teams latest loss.