24 Nov 20
@divegeester saidNo no one should have a needle stuck in their arm against their will. But as with all choices in life their are pros and cons. An internal vaccine passport system is the best option for opening the economy and keeping the vulnerable safe.
Only if you are visiting a country where certain jabs are a prerequisite. I had to get my doctor to update my vaccinations and provide me with the “passport” (little booklet with the references and signatures etc) when I travelled to Mauritius, I think it was.
It’s quite sensible really but of course these were jabs using long established vaccines for long establishe ...[text shortened]... companies falling over themselves to make billions out of shoving needles into me over a new virus ðŸ¦
Don’t worry dive their will be plenty of pubs, clubs, shops and gyms etc that will be only too happy to service the non vaccinated.
24 Nov 20
The post that was quoted here has been removedYeah because young children are, in most societies, represented by parents or legal guardians then permission is given or withheld on their behalf.
The child isn’t objecting to vaccination it’s objecting to the discomfort of the needle.
Should parents or legal guardians allow a child’s teeth to fall out because the child objects to the discomfort to be found in a dentists chair?
24 Nov 20
The post that was quoted here has been removedHe has clearly stopped being a scientist at this point.
Perhaps I should have qualified my statement about the honesty of scientists regarding what they do or don’t know.
At the end of the day all choices carry some risk of negative outcomes but I’ll stick with science and modern medicine including vaccinations.
24 Nov 20
@metal-brain saidI’m pointing out that the question you asked is easily answered, even for lay persons such as ourselves, with a simple google search.
Do you always have no answers to offer?
Asking good questions is not a bias, it is an intelligent quest for useful information. Perhaps you are disgruntled because you cannot answer them. Your ego is not my problem.
You asked the question as though the answer itself held some shoe-drop insight which supported your bias. Hence my reply.
24 Nov 20
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@kewpie saidWhat about sitting next to them on busses, on trains, in restaurants, standing next to them in the supermarket queue, in clothes store fitting rooms etc?
When I first travelled by air back in the 1970s I couldn't get on a plane without a smallpox vaccination certificate. It wasn't a big deal then, even though smallpox vaccines were a real problem for a few people who had to produce medical certification about their allergy status. Qantas is already considering bringing back a vaccination requirement for international flights. ...[text shortened]... Great idea. Then we wouldn't have to risk our lives sitting next to anti-vaxxers on crowded planes.
Travel vaccination passports are there to protect the visiting destination, not commuters.
24 Nov 20
@kevcvs57 saidI will probably have the jab when there is eventually enough of it to go around. It will be interesting to see how next year pans out.
No no one should have a needle stuck in their arm against their will. But as with all choices in life their are pros and cons. An internal vaccine passport system is the best option for opening the economy and keeping the vulnerable safe.
Don’t worry dive their will be plenty of pubs, clubs, shops and gyms etc that will be only too happy to service the non vaccinated.
24 Nov 20
The post that was quoted here has been removedI’m not naive about anything, I’m simply rational enough to know my limitations and defer to those far more qualified than myself.
There is nothing wrong with competition and it is the job of the relevant government body to clear any new treatment for use by its population. And no I’m not naive enough to think they always get it right but I have evaluated the risk of taking the vaccine and getting covid at my age and with my underlying issues and I shall be taking the vaccine.
You with your superior knowledge of these things will obviously make a much more informed choice depending on your own circumstances.
@kevcvs57 saidProbably the majority (of independent scientists do).
No not always but they are the first to admit what they don’t know, unlike politicians and conspiracy theorists.
Here’s the thing though; these vaccines are not developed by independent “scientists”, they are developed by giant pharmaceutical companies who are in a commercial race to produce the first vaccine because the distribution is worth tens of billions of dollars.
I don’t think it is “conspiratorial” to take a good long hard look at what’s going on. Governments are desperate for a “fix” they will grasp at anything to release their economies from the death grip of the fear of covid. And let’s be clear it is not covid that will crush an economy it is the country being in hiding from it that will crush it. As unpalatable as that sounds, it’s the truth.
24 Nov 20
@divegeester saidI think it is a bit conspiratorial dive because yes they are for profit organisations but they are staffed by human beings.
Probably the majority (of independent scientists do).
Here’s the thing though; these vaccines are not developed by independent “scientists”, they are developed by giant pharmaceutical companies who are in a commercial race to produce the first vaccine because the distribution is worth tens of billions of dollars.
I don’t think it is “conspiratorial” to take a good ...[text shortened]... e country being in hiding from it that will crush it. As unpalatable as that sounds, it’s the truth.
Scientists are not evil people ( although some evil people become scientists ).
There’s are reasons why these vaccines have hit the market so quickly. They have been supported, backed and financed at a governmental level. The horrific health, social, economic and political consequences of this pandemic have not been lost on the scientific world and they have responded in the same way as health care and other frontline workers, with total commitment.
There is fine line between a healthy scepticism regarding big pharma and anti Vaxxer conspiracy theories.
But you and others here can stop worrying about possible ill effects of the vaccine because I shall be taking it before you.
If I’m still being wilfully naive in the spring you can probably relax and get the vaccine.
24 Nov 20
@kevcvs57 saidMaybe, but I haven’t crossed it. I can however see the appeal of some conspiracy theories because the stories they tell easily become social intellectual currency among the classes who consume that sort of thing.
There is fine line between a healthy scepticism regarding big pharma and anti Vaxxer conspiracy theories.
I actually think it isn’t a thin line, I think it’s a broad spectrum band, which is why some people traverse it without even realising they have crossed from healthy scepticism to loony tunes.