Originally posted by @quackquackHow amusing is this then, turd for brains?
Your theory that we imprison people to get cheap labor is amusing. Prisoners basically do nothing for society and contribute nothing to society. They are a huge expense and a huge net negative.
Prison labor in the United States is referred to as insourcing. Under the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC), employers receive a tax credit of $2,400 for every work-release inmate they employ as a reward for hiring “risky target groups.”
The workers are not only cheap labor, but they are considered easier to control. They also tend to be African-American males. Companies are free to avoid providing benefits like health insurance or sick days. They also don’t need to worry about unions, demands for vacation time, raises or family issues.
According to the Left Business Observer, “the federal prison industry produces 100 percent of all military helmets, war supplies and other equipment. The workers supply 98 percent of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93 percent of paints and paintbrushes; 92 percent of stove assembly; 46 percent of body armor; 36 percent of home appliances; 30 percent of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21 percent of office furniture. Airplane parts, medical supplies and much more: prisoners are even raising seeing-eye dogs for blind people.”
With all of that productivity, the inmates make about 90 cents to $4 a day.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/10/10/12-mainstream-corporations-benefiting-from-the-prison-industrial-complex/
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/9-surprising-industries-profiting-handsomely-americas-insane-prison-system
It's no coincidence that the United States now imprisons more of its people than any other country in the world: mass incarceration has become a giant industry in the U.S., resulting in huge profits not only for private prison companies, but also, for everything from food companies and telecoms to all the businesses that are using prison labor to cut their manufacturing costs. The prison-industrial complex even has its own lobbyists: according to a 2011 report from the Justice Policy Institute (JPI), the U.S.’ largest private prison company, the Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), and their competitor the GEO Group have both spent hundreds of thousands of dollars lobbying forlonger prison sentences. And the American Bail Coalition has been lobbying for the bail bond industry for 23 years.
One of the main reasons so many people are imprisoned in the U.S. (which now has 25% of the world’s prisoners even though it comprises only 5% of the world’s population) is the war on drugs, which has brought with it draconian sentences for nonviolent drug offenses. In a 2013 report on Americans serving life without parole for nonviolent offenses, the American Civil Liberties Union found that 79% were incarcerated for drug-related convictions. Three-strikes laws, which mandate life without the possibility of parole after a third felony conviction, have also done a lot to expand the prison-industrial complex.
Reform is at odds with the agenda of many powerful industries. It's well-known that private prison companies draw their profits from mass incarceration, but they’re not the only ones. Here are nine industries that are profiting quite handsomely from the prison-industrial complex and mass incarceration in the U.S.
29 Aug 17
Silver lining to the cloud on migrant workers:
With more states fining farmers for hiring undocumented workers and fewer agricultural workers coming in from Mexico, the prison-industrial complex has been using more prisoners as a source of farm labor. This is happening everywhere from Georgia to Arizona to Idaho, where in 2014, State Sen. Patti Anne Lodge (a Republican) sponsored a bill allowing agricultural employers to hire prisoners. The bill was quickly signed into law by Idaho’s Republican governor C.L. Otter.
29 Aug 17
Originally posted by @quackquackI know that (Amsterdam, for instance, is no different). But what does that tell you about crime, minorities, or how to effectively tackle crime? Precious little. What is tells you is that when conditions in a society are such that they incentivize people to become criminals, the most marginalized members of society are more likely to become criminals.
It may not tell you everything but you'd be burying your head in the sand to not recognize in the US there is a higher crime rate among minorities.
Originally posted by @kazetnagorraWe should pay people not to steal from us, this is brilliant.
I know that (Amsterdam, for instance, is no different). But what does that tell you about crime, minorities, or how to effectively tackle crime? Precious little. What is tells you is that when conditions in a society are such that they incentivize people to become criminals, the most marginalized members of society are more likely to become criminals.
29 Aug 17
Originally posted by @wajomaYou want to live in a decent society free of crime, you pay for the privilege.
We should pay people not to steal from us, this is brilliant.
You set things up so the rich get the lot and the poor get stuffed, then you get all the social evils of inequality, including high levels of crime and violence.
The kind of society you choose to build reflects your values. In your case, that means that property rights are more important than human rights, accumulation of wealth is more important than accumulation of virtue: I have the power to take from you and I do not have the duty to share with you.
A society built on slave labour is not one I would choose. Doing so and calling it "freedom" or "liberty" is America's unique contribution to the dying of our species.
29 Aug 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @finneganIt sounds like a positive thing to me. Productively employing high risk people is a good thing and since inmates already freeload by not paying for room and board, only a dope like yourself would worry about an inmates wages.
How amusing is this then, turd for brains?
[quote]Prison labor in the United States is referred to as insourcing. Under the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC), employers receive a tax credit of $2,400 for every work-release inmate they employ as a reward for hiring “risky target groups.”
The workers are not only cheap labor, but they are considered ...[text shortened]... ackstar.com/2014/10/10/12-mainstream-corporations-benefiting-from-the-prison-industrial-complex/
Your inability to appreciate the difference between punishment for committing crime and being enslaved is amusing.
29 Aug 17
3 edits
Originally posted by @quackquackSo to start with, your earlier post has been exploded.
It sounds like a positive thing to me. Productively employing high risk people is a good thing and since inmates already freeload by not paying for room and board, only a dope like yourself would worry about an inmates wages.
Your inability to appreciate the difference between punishment for committing crime and being enslaved is amusing.
"Prisoners basically do nothing for society and contribute nothing to society. They are a huge expense and a huge net negative."
You have no answer to the evidence that, in reality, prison labour provides a massive resource for the prison industrial system which in turn is hugely profitable for the corporations involved, without offering any corresponding savings to the state, which still pays through the nose for prison places. In fact, the state pays a bounty to employers for providing jobs to inmates, a ludicrous additional subsidy which just demonstrates the extent to which corrupt interests can abuse the state without people like you raising a murmer of concern.
Secondly, as I showed above, the people rounded up to provide prison labour are not selected because they are a danger to society, they are selected because corrupt politicians (like Pence) and law enforcement officials (like the "sherrife" of this thread's illiterate title) distort the system to entrap and imprison people who would either go nowhere near a prison in any other decent society on this planet or at a minimum would spend a modest period inside before emerging into society with a clean slate. In the USA, the fascist attitudes of voters like yourself make society a danger to your victims.
Thirdly, your sneering fascism is just intolerable.
29 Aug 17
Originally posted by @finneganYour blind assertion that these unskilled criminals provide massive profits is absurd. It is tough enough to make money in a setting where you have skilled noncriminals but you somehow believe that the scum of our society is producing valuable quality product. But if you are right, then great lets force prisoners to be productive to offsets the costs they impose on society.
So to start with, your earlier post has been exploded.
"Prisoners basically do nothing for society and contribute nothing to society. They are a huge expense and a huge net negative."
You have no answer to the evidence that, in reality, prison labour provides a massive resource for the prison industrial system which in turn is hugely profitable for ...[text shortened]... f make society a danger to your victims.
Thirdly, your sneering fascism is just intolerable.
People are in a prison program as part of a punishment. Your belief that this is slavery and that prisoners are entitled to wages comparable to a law abiding citizen is just comical. When you recognize that people are in prison because of choices they made, not because they were entrapped we can discuss possible solutions.
29 Aug 17
Originally posted by @quackquackThe Norwegian prison system, known for its low rate of re-offending among released criminals, focuses on good conditions in prisons, training and educating convicts, etc.
Your blind assertion that these unskilled criminals provide massive profits is absurd. It is tough enough to make money in a setting where you have skilled noncriminals but you somehow believe that the scum of our society is producing valuable quality product. But if you are right, then great lets force prisoners to be productive to offsets the costs ...[text shortened]... because of choices they made, not because they were entrapped we can discuss possible solutions.
What is more important: satisfying the base urges of wrath and envy, or reducing the threat of crime in society?
29 Aug 17
Originally posted by @quackquackI have supported all my statements with good hard evidence. You have been unable to refute this.
Your blind assertion that these unskilled criminals provide massive profits is absurd. It is tough enough to make money in a setting where you have skilled noncriminals but you somehow believe that the scum of our society is producing valuable quality product. But if you are right, then great lets force prisoners to be productive to offsets the costs ...[text shortened]... because of choices they made, not because they were entrapped we can discuss possible solutions.
You are not interested in evidence or facts. You are content with your prejudices. You are incapable of engaging in a reasoned debate. You are perfect for people like Trump and Pence.
You make a choice to be lied to and there is not much anyone can do while you keep that mindset.
29 Aug 17
Originally posted by @finneganYou can't distinguish between slaves and prisoners given an opportunity to work. You can't understand that those convicted of crimes are criminals and not individuals who were entrapped. To you everything is a rigged class struggle. The world isn't close to the way the view and you are far to quick to think you have all the answers about American society.
I have supported all my statements with good hard evidence. You have been unable to refute this.
You are not interested in evidence or facts. You are content with your prejudices. You are incapable of engaging in a reasoned debate. You are perfect for people like Trump and Pence.
You make a choice to be lied to and there is not much anyone can do while you keep that mindset.
29 Aug 17
4 edits
Originally posted by @quackquackIt is easy to distinguish between slaves and prisoners given an opportunity to work by examining the sanctions applied to prisoners who decline to work.
You can't distinguish between slaves and prisoners given an opportunity to work. You can't understand that those convicted of crimes are criminals and not individuals who were entrapped. To you everything is a rigged class struggle. The world isn't close to the way the view and you are far to quick to think you have all the answers about American society.
It is easy to see that when a politician like Pence artificially sets about doubling all the prison terms in his state, while accepting payments from the prison companies lobbying for such increases, then the victims of those actions are being entrapped in order to generate profits for the corporations and politicians involved.
Yes it is a class struggle. Even Elador agrees the rich usually don't go to prison even when convicted of major crimes. More importantly, when trying to understand and explain what is happening, a Marxist critique is surprisingly effective. For example, after Angela Davis spent many many years claiming that J.Edgar Hoover was misusing his powers at the head of the FBI to control and silence political activists, which is of course illegal and unconstitutional, it turned out she was quite right. He even tried to frame her on charges that would have resulted in her execution and did his best to avoid a fair trial. That is how severe the challenge is for political activists in the USA. However the political prisoners she identified have not all been released and never will be. So you see, it makes sense to identify this is an aspect of class struggle.
Compare your approach. You are totally ignorant of the way the system works and that is how you are determined to remain. It seems to upset you when factual information is pushed in front of you. It disturbs your swinish complacency. Because you have no way to analyse events in serious plitical terms, you are defenceless when politicans and lobbyists choose to mislead you and they can take you where they want by the nose. You might as well have a ring in it.
I do not claim to know all the answers. I do claim that my arguments are supported by good evidence and I do read widely to arrive at my opinions. I give you my sources (and can repeat them if you need it).
You claim to know that I am wrong but you are unable to support that with evidence or logical argument. You just settle for repeating your bigotry as though you could shout me down.
Frankly, if my not being American means I know less than you, which would seem a credible idea, then how come you know nothing and cannot refute what I say? Fact is it is not relevant. We are not born knowing anything at all. But we are born with a brain, which improves if we choose to exercise it and atrophies if we settle for blah blah.