Uncontrolled borders

Originally posted by Merk
Well, I suppose if you don't count all the coffee shops being full of stoners as a drug problem, then I would have to say that you're correct.

Per head of the population Holland has relatively few soft-drugs users.

And alcohol is unhealthier. And it's better to have stoned people buying good quality stuff, for a good price, in safety, in a "crime free environment" (obviously crime free here is a comparison).

Originally posted by shavixmir
Illegally only.
That's where all the crime is too... coincidence?

But, the old myth of soft drugs leading to hard drugs has been completely dispelled here in Holland. By seperating the dealers of both, one suddenly doesn't lead to the other.

The way you state that... it doesn't sound like Hollands form of legalizing drugs would solve our border problem with the drug lords.

Originally posted by lepomis
The way you state that... it doesn't sound like Hollands form of legalizing drugs would solve our border problem with the drug lords.

If you legalize drugs there won't be any drug lords

Originally posted by lepomis
Would documented immigrants not want to do those jobs either?

well, now you've changed topics but,

a documented immigrant would be likely able to get a different/higher paying job so it's unlikely they would enter the agricultural labour market.

Originally posted by uzless
well, now you've changed topics but,

a documented immigrant would be likely able to get a different/higher paying job so it's unlikely they would enter the agricultural labour market.

So your saying that amnesty will cause us to have a shortage of people willing to do the crappy jobs?

Originally posted by uzless
If you legalize drugs there won't be any drug lords

He said that hard drugs are not legal... why would drug lords not sell hard drugs?

Originally posted by lepomis
So your saying that amnesty will cause us to have a shortage of people willing to do the crappy jobs?

No, I was saying the reason the border isn't "secure" and the reason why reporters can find illegal aliens better than the governemnt is because the government really isn't interested in finding illegal aliens because of the role they play in the economy.

The amnesty will just allow these guys to get the required documents to obtain better jobs, mortgages, healthcare etc.

Only then can the government address the low wages paid to undocumented immigrants. If the government was serious, they'd go after the companies hiring undocumented immigrants but that would be anti-business and therfore anti-american so they make the issue about the workers instead of the companies.

If the wages were higher in these jobs, perhaps more americans would be willing to do them and there wouldn't be a need to hiring illegal aliens to do the work.

Originally posted by uzless
No, I was saying the reason the border isn't "secure" and the reason why reporters can find illegal aliens better than the governemnt is because the government really isn't interested in finding illegal aliens because of the role they play in the economy.

The amnesty will just allow these guys to get the required documents to obtain better jobs, mortgages, ...[text shortened]... e willing to do them and there wouldn't be a need to hiring illegal aliens to do the work.

Sorry... I have read your statement 4 times and I can not tell if your are saying that the government thinks that documented or undocumented workers are a benefit to the economy. It sounds like you are saying both would be a benefit.

Originally posted by lepomis
Sorry... I have read your statement 4 times and I can not tell if your are saying that the government thinks that documented or undocumented workers are a benefit to the economy. It sounds like you are saying both would be a benefit.

Documented workers are of course a benefit to the ecomony.

Undocumented workers are also a benefit to the economy largely because the jobs they fill are jobs that Americans don't want to do. But beyond that, most of the money they make goes back into the economy with their food, clothing etc purchases. They pay tax on the items they buy.

This is why the government doesn't fully secure the border.

My point is that if you want to stop illegal immigration then take away the means for these guys to support themselves. Instead of increasing border patrol guards, hire inspectors to go after and FINE the farming industries who hire illegal aliens. You take away a company's workforce and Fine them enough money and the company's will soon smarten up. Right now the demand for illegal aliens is too high.

Originally posted by shavixmir
I'll tell you what though...

See if I care! 🙂

You want to keep the drug spiral as it is, feel free to do so. Don't forget, the harder you clamp down on drugs, the more they'll become worth, the more people will want to actively push them.

And that's entertainment... and capitalism for you.

But, but, but, I thought we needed Capitalism to get to Communism?

Originally posted by uzless
If you legalize drugs there won't be any drug lords

Yeah, right! Then the only drug lord will be The Government. Bent over and grab your ankles.

Originally posted by uzless
Documented workers are of course a benefit to the ecomony.

Undocumented workers are also a benefit to the economy largely because the jobs they fill are jobs that Americans don't want to do. But beyond that, most of the money they make goes back into the economy with their food, clothing etc purchases. They pay tax on the items they buy.

This is why ...[text shortened]... nd the company's will soon smarten up. Right now the demand for illegal aliens is too high.

I fully agree with you... but I think you have to do both... border control and fining the hell out of businesses that break the law.

Originally posted by uzless
The government doesn't really care about undocumented immigrants since most of them are doing jobs that the average american refuses to do....primarily agriculture.

Correction: the average American doesn't want to do that work at the wages that illegal aliens are being paid. They want at least minimum wage and health care benefits. They want their children to be educated. They don't want to live in a tarpaper shack because they're not being paid enough to live in an apartment and pay rent and utilities. It isn't the job that people don't want; it's the substandard wages and working conditions.

Originally posted by lepomis
Which country in Europe is flooding Finland with 45 million people?

Well, the ascension a few years back introduced a large chunk of eastern states into the EU with underdeveloped economies, but of course meeting certain minimums. This increased our population by around 50%. They gain by being part of an economic and political Union which will raise living standards for them, while providing a huge influx of labour for the other member states. It worked wonders for Ireland. Spain, Portugal and Greece are also in a much better state than before they joined.
I think the analogy between the EU and NAFTA rings true.
Provided the Mexican economy meets certain minimums, the relationship between the three can only lead to good things. There will be hurdles to jump on all sides, but careful management can ensure all sides win.

Originally posted by Merk
Lets not pretend that one-third of the countries in the EU are of Mexican caliber.

Mexico has far more resources and work force than Romania and Bulgaria.

And those 2 will do just fine.

Dude, it's time to recognize history, business and society unite
Canada, the U.S. and Mexico in a common, united destiny.

It is the future. Today.

Edit. I already thought about the anthem of the Union. It will be
the American anthem with mariachi music, sung by a bunch of
Canadians dressed like the mounted police... in Quebecois French.