09 Feb 11
Originally posted by gambit3you are forgetting the biggies like tobacco,alcohol,etc
Federal income tax + FICA tax + state income tax + pluss property tax+ pluss sales tax+ taxes for things such as gasoline, ect + things that are a tax in my opinion such as a fishing license, a license for a motor vehicle. Federal income is not the only tax Americans have forced on them.
09 Feb 11
Originally posted by no1marauderAgreed, too bad the right wing has brainwashed so many into thinking we're being taxed to death😞
Contrary to right wing screechers, our taxes are just too damn low. Here's a provocative article with the eye-opening facts:
Taxes too high?
Actually, as a share of the nation's economy, Uncle Sam's take this year will be the lowest since 1950, when the Korean War was just getting under way.
And for the third straight year, America ...[text shortened]... en the biggest tax breaks over the last 30 years (you know who they are)?
09 Feb 11
1 edit
Originally posted by CliffLandinI mentioned everthing that I had to pay. I did forget about the self employment tax. P.S. I am not resident of Oregon, Florida, or Califirnia. All states require a motor vehicle to have a license. It is called a license plate. Taxes are taxes no matter what they call it or which part of the government mandates it.
There is no sales tax in Oregon. There is no state income tax in Florida or California or many other states. And many states don't have taxes for hunting or fishing licenses, nor for licenses for motor vehicles. And state taxes shouldn't even factor into this discussion.
Taxes are not a bad thing. They pay for most of the things that you take for gran cop on the beat or a fire truck speeding down the road remember that you helped finance that.
10 Feb 11
Originally posted by CliffLandinI remember years ago I heard Montana had no property tax. Taxes are usually shifted somewhere else as a result. This does not prove taxes are lower. Here in Michigan we have state income tax, property tax, 6% sales tax (it used to be lower years ago) and our drivers license registration was raised a lot recently.
There is no sales tax in Oregon. There is no state income tax in Florida or California or many other states. And many states don't have taxes for hunting or fishing licenses, nor for licenses for motor vehicles. And state taxes shouldn't even factor into this discussion.
Taxes are not a bad thing. They pay for most of the things that you take for gran ...[text shortened]... cop on the beat or a fire truck speeding down the road remember that you helped finance that.
Inflation is also a tax (QE1 and QE2 should raise that tax down the road)) that should not be ignored. Income taxes may be lower but taxes in general are higher in Michigan.
10 Feb 11
1 edit
Originally posted by gambit3Well, at least as far as the OP points to Obama and the (until recently) Democrat-controlled Congress, I think the broadening consideration for other taxes doesn't really undermine the articles point.
Federal income tax + FICA tax + state income tax + pluss property tax+ pluss sales tax+ taxes for things such as gasoline, ect + things that are a tax in my opinion such as a fishing license, a license for a motor vehicle. Federal income is not the only tax Americans have forced on them.
For instance, FICA taxes have been reduced by 2%.
Federal income taxes are lower.
State and local taxes (like property tax and sales taxes) are out of Obama's and Congress' hands (and you can still deduct them).
Gasoline taxes are much lower than mainstream economist's measure of the optimal tax (see Pigovian tax).
Finally things like federal excise taxes make up an insignificant fraction of government revenues (they could double and it wouldn't offset the reductions in income and payroll taxes).
Look. It's fair to ask whether all this tax cutting is even a good idea given the dire fiscal path we are on, but let's call a spade a spade. Taxes are lower (at least at the federal level).
11 Feb 11
Originally posted by gambit3So, you equate any fee levied as a tax? Interesting.
I mentioned everthing that I had to pay. I did forget about the self employment tax. P.S. I am not resident of Oregon, Florida, or Califirnia. All states require a motor vehicle to have a license. It is called a license plate. Taxes are taxes no matter what they call it or which part of the government mandates it.
You're right taxes are taxes, but what you speak of are not taxes. They are fees. Is it a tax when you pay to go into a state park? No. It is a fee. There is a difference.
11 Feb 11
Originally posted by telerionTax cutting is always a good idea, especially for small businesses which provide most of the new jobs that this economy needs right now.
Well, at least as far as the OP points to Obama and the (until recently) Democrat-controlled Congress, I think the broadening consideration for other taxes doesn't really undermine the articles point.
For instance, FICA taxes have been reduced by 2%.
Federal income taxes are lower.
State and local taxes (like property tax and sales taxes) are out ...[text shortened]... are on, but let's call a spade a spade. Taxes are lower (at least at the federal level).
12 Feb 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Scotty70Small businesses also need capital and cheap credit.
Tax cutting is always a good idea, especially for small businesses which provide most of the new jobs that this economy needs right now.
If we decide that a tax cut is always good, how does the government pay down its debt? Forget about any future government spending. Let's assume that the government could completely stop doing all its primary services without a single hiccup in the market. It would still have to repay its debt (+ interest). How is the government going to do that without taxes?
When the Federal Reserve decides that the time is right to tighten monetary policy, the only thing that will keep interest rates on government securities low is confidence that the US government will repay its obligations on time. If the market decides that the government will adopt the "a tax cut is always good" policy, it will price the default risk in in a heartbeat and small businesses will get crushed.
IMO, we need to broaden the tax. Cut out a lot of unfair "tax expenditures" and bring our revenue stream in line with our expectations of government services. Conditional on raising the necessary revenue, the code should be simplified and marginal tax rates should be brought as low as possible. And, personally, I favor a modest amount of progressivity (mostly at the very low end though). But all that is just my view.
12 Feb 11
Originally posted by no1marauderwhereas spending is now highest it's ever been except for during WWII:
Contrary to right wing screechers, our taxes are just too damn low. Here's a provocative article with the eye-opening facts:
Taxes too high?
Actually, as a share of the nation's economy, Uncle Sam's take this year will be the lowest since 1950, when the Korean War was just getting under way.
And for the third straight year, America ...[text shortened]... en the biggest tax breaks over the last 30 years (you know who they are)?
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html
US Government Spending As Percent Of GDP
(chart)
US Government Spending As Percent Of GDP
Fiscal Years 1903 to 2010Year GDP-US
$ billion Total Spending -total
pct GDP
1903 25.9 6.80 i
1904 25.7 7.28 i
1905 28.8 6.89 i
1906 31 6.81 i
1907 33.9 6.61 i
1908 30.1 7.90 i
1909 32.2 7.84 i
1910 33.4 8.03 i
1911 34.3 8.31 i
1912 37.4 8.09 i
1913 39.1 8.22 a
1914 36.5 9.55 i
1915 38.7 9.80 i
1916 49.6 8.22 i
1917 59.7 9.49 i
1918 75.8 22.12 i
1919 78.3 29.38 i
1920 88.4 12.81 i
1921 73.6 14.31 i
1922 73.4 12.67 a
...
1986 4460.1 35.71 i
1987 4736.4 35.09 i
1988 5100.4 34.73 i
1989 5482.1 34.94 i
1990 5800.5 36.01 i
1991 5992.1 37.22 i
1992 6342.3 37.04 a
1993 6667.4 36.31 a
1994 7085.2 35.38 a
1995 7414.7 35.54 a
1996 7838.5 34.69 a
1997 8332.4 33.77 a
1998 8793.5 33.24 a
1999 9353.5 32.65 a
2000 9951.5 32.56 a
2001 10286.2 33.38 a
2002 10642.3 34.75 a
2003 11142.1 35.28 a
2004 11867.8 34.78 a
2005 12638.4 34.79 a
2006 13398.9 35.06 a
2007 14077.6 34.98 a
2008 14441.4 36.94 a
2009 14258.2 41.97 e
2010 14623.9 43.09 g
12 Feb 11
Originally posted by zeeblebotOnly a few more percentage points and you'll be as "socialist" as Denmark. 😉
whereas spending is now highest it's ever been except for during WWII:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html
US Government Spending As Percent Of GDP
(chart)
US Government Spending As Percent Of GDP
Fiscal Years 1903 to 2010Year GDP-US
$ billion Total Spending -total
pct GDP
1903 25.9 6.80 i
1904 25.7 7.28 i
1905 ...[text shortened]... 35.06 a
2007 14077.6 34.98 a
2008 14441.4 36.94 a
2009 14258.2 41.97 e
2010 14623.9 43.09 g
13 Feb 11
Originally posted by zeeblebotApples and oranges; Federal government spending was $3.5 trillion in 2010 or about 24% of GDP. The chart must be including every bit of government spending down to local school districts so it's not strictly comparable to the figures in the OP.
whereas spending is now highest it's ever been except for during WWII:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html
US Government Spending As Percent Of GDP
(chart)
US Government Spending As Percent Of GDP
Fiscal Years 1903 to 2010Year GDP-US
$ billion Total Spending -total
pct GDP
1903 25.9 6.80 i
1904 25.7 7.28 i
1905 ...[text shortened]... 35.06 a
2007 14077.6 34.98 a
2008 14441.4 36.94 a
2009 14258.2 41.97 e
2010 14623.9 43.09 g